Calikang form and 6 weapons, can someone please explain


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Hey all. I'm trying to figure out what happens when my Kensai Magus transforms into a Kalikang and I have 6 Katanas on my person. How many attacks do I actually get and at what penalty? Are there feats to negate some of the penalties? Does TWF and Imp TWF give me more attacks per hand?

Basically, I'm still fairly new and so is my playgroup. I'm trying to get the logistics correct for this, if someone would be so kind to explain how it actually works or point me to a thread that will explain it, I'd be much obliged.

Thanks!

Sczarni

-6 main hand, -10 off hands.
The Multi-Weapon Fighting feat will lower all of them to -4. If you switch out your off-hand Katanas to light weapons you'll only be at -2.

But only for an actual Calikang.

The "unwritten rules" put forth by the Designers state that PCs can only ever have two metaphorical "hands" worth of actions. Monsters that are born with multiple arms know how to use them to full effect.

So even if you're a polymorphed Calikang with 6 Katanas, or a regular two-armed character with a weapon in each hand, a boulder helmet, and two blade boots, you can only ever attack with 2 of them.

Barring iterative attacks and attacks of opportunity.


You're looking for Multiweapon Fighting, which is the equivalent of the TWF but for things with more than two arms. If you really wanted to you could as a full attack go with all your normal BAB attacks (main hand) plus one extra attack with each other arm (off hands), but you would take -6 to your main hand attacks and -10 to all of your off hand attacks; if you had that feat then it would "only" be -4 and -6 respectively. You would also not be able to use this in conjunction with Spell Combat.

Sczarni

Also, in PFS (since I see the Shadow Lodge emblem next to your name) the Calikang is not available for Polymorph effects.

For home games you can ignore all of the restrictions I just outlined for you if your GM is fine with them, of course.

Dark Archive

Thanks for the replies! Yes it is for a home game, I just didnt know the logistics of it. Thanks again!

Dark Archive

Nefreet wrote:

Also, in PFS (since I see the Shadow Lodge emblem next to your name) the Calikang is not available for Polymorph effects.

For home games you can ignore all of the restrictions I just outlined for you if your GM is fine with them, of course.

Where are you getting that from?

There's nothing in the additional resources that states that form isn't legal.

Sczarni

That's not how the Additional Resources document works.

You need text that states, "creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters", like you find with the Bestiary entries.

Grand Lodge

So, what happens, according to the "unwritten rules" if a multi-armed creature polymorphs into a two armed creature?

Do they lose their "metaphorical hands"?

Are the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands" based on original, or current shape?

How does PFS handle the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands"?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, what happens, according to the "unwritten rules" if a multi-armed creature polymorphs into a two armed creature?

Do they lose their "metaphorical hands"?

Are the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands" based on original, or current shape?

How does PFS handle the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands"?

I was under the impression PFS dealt strictly with strict written rules. Perhaps the "unwritten rules" should jot themselves down if they want to be legally binding.


For PFS, multi-weapon fighting is forbidden too, nop ?

Anyway BBT, If you don't have 3+ arms anymore, you don't qualify for the feat, so the feat doesn't work.


Pretty sure "two metaphorical hands" only applies if your extra hands are vestigial. A form with four actual extra hands and no special restriction on them would have six metaphorical hands as well. The bestiary entry has no such restriction, and polymorph effects do grant the standard attack forms of the new form. PFS aside, of course.

Though I didn't know multiweapon fighting itself was out for PFS. I'd assumed only the feat was forbidden, not the act of attacking itself, complete with massive penalties.

Grand Lodge

Indeed.

The Multiweapon Fighting feat only reduces penalties for something that can already be done by 3+ armed creatures.

Much like the Two-Weapon Fighting feat only reduces penalties for something every creature can do.

Grand Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, what happens, according to the "unwritten rules" if a multi-armed creature polymorphs into a two armed creature?

Do they lose their "metaphorical hands"?

Are the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands" based on original, or current shape?

How does PFS handle the "unwritten rules" on "metaphorical hands"?

Yes.

Polymorph rules are written. What you have available is the intersection between what's available by spell and by the current form. if a Calikang polymorphs into a Human, he becomes limited by the Human form.

PFS goes by the Rules As Written And Amended by Campaign guidelines and Additional Resources.

"Yes Doctor I was limited to the form of a frail Human Woman... But at the time, so was the Zygon."

Queen Elizabeth to the Doctor.
50th Anniversary Special.

Grand Lodge

Obviously, I am not referencing anything written, like the polymorph rules, except, in how they interact with "unwritten rules".

Liberty's Edge

blahpers wrote:

Pretty sure "two metaphorical hands" only applies if your extra hands are vestigial. A form with four actual extra hands and no special restriction on them would have six metaphorical hands as well. The bestiary entry has no such restriction, and polymorph effects do grant the standard attack forms of the new form. PFS aside, of course.

Though I didn't know multiweapon fighting itself was out for PFS. I'd assumed only the feat was forbidden, not the act of attacking itself, complete with massive penalties.

A form capable to attack with more than 2 arms retain that ability (not all creature with more than 2 arms are capable to attack with all their hands) but the polymorph spells don't give you the multiweapon feat so if you are using weapons you attack at a huge penalty.

If the form you assume is capable to make multiple attacks, like the charda (4 claws, 1 bite) you get all of them when polymorphed. If you have 4 weapons you can make 4 arm attack as the charda has them, but you would suffer the full penalty for using multi weapon combat without the feat.


Diego Rossi wrote:
blahpers wrote:

Pretty sure "two metaphorical hands" only applies if your extra hands are vestigial. A form with four actual extra hands and no special restriction on them would have six metaphorical hands as well. The bestiary entry has no such restriction, and polymorph effects do grant the standard attack forms of the new form. PFS aside, of course.

Though I didn't know multiweapon fighting itself was out for PFS. I'd assumed only the feat was forbidden, not the act of attacking itself, complete with massive penalties.

A form capable to attack with more than 2 arms retain that ability (not all creature with more than 2 arms are capable to attack with all their hands) but the polymorph spells don't give you the multiweapon feat so if you are using weapons you attack at a huge penalty.

If the form you assume is capable to make multiple attacks, like the charda (4 claws, 1 bite) you get all of them when polymorphed. If you have 4 weapons you can make 4 arm attack as the charda has them, but you would suffer the full penalty for using multi weapon combat without the feat.

Agreed 100%. Best to stick with natural attacks--or light off-hand weapons, or high-multiplier "crit-fishing" weapons instead.

Dark Archive

Nefreet wrote:

That's not how the Additional Resources document works.

You need text that states, "creatures in this book are legal for polymorph effects (including a druid's wild shape ability) within the boundaries of each spell or ability's parameters", like you find with the Bestiary entries.

And only the Beastiary. No other book in any of the pathfinder lines has that addendum on it.

Sczarni

Exactly.

Ergo, no other book (outside of the Bestiaries) has creatures that are legal for Polymorph effects.

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