Finesse Marksman's Teleporting Attack and Uncanny Dodge

[Tela]

Right now my party is in a bad situation, so as a precaution I am preparing a new character. DM has allowed psionics, so I was taking a look and I liked how Marksman worked. However, I noticed something that greatly confused me and the rest of my group.

Level 12 Finesse Marksman's Teleporting Attack:

D20pfsrd and Psionics Expanded: Find the Mark wrote:

Upon achieving 12th level, a finesse Marksman is capable of teleporting his ranged or thrown attacks to hit enemies from unexpected angles. By expending psionic focus as part of a ranged or thrown attack, the target is considered flat-footed for the attack. Should your target have Uncanny Dodge or improved uncanny dodge, treat your Marksman level as your rogue level to determine if the target is treated as flat-footed.

I've done a lot of searching with this, and still have not found and answer to that last line. It's saying that I have a way to bypass uncanny dodge, and by that logic so do rogues. Except there is no way to bypass uncanny dodge listed under rogues.

Bypassing Improved Uncanny Dodge makes no sense as without a feat chain, one cannot flank with a bow.

So, is this ability taking the rogue's ability to bypass IUD and having it count as also bypassing UD?

[TGMaxMaxer]

Probably a reference to 3.5, when I think you had the same "4 rogue levels higher" could ignore UD as well.

But I may be mistaken, it has been 12 years.

[Claxon]

I agree. Let's look at the barbarian's version:

Quote:

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels.

So, my conclusion is that you can bypass IUD the same way a a rogue could...that is by being four levels higher of the appropriate class.

Edit: Never mind, I see your point.

Uncanny Dodge says you can't be flat-footed ever. With no line about being able to bypass it, the ability simply doesn't work against anyone with Uncanny Dodge.

This also isn't really a rules question because the problem results from 3rd party material, not Paizo material.

[Tela]

Claxon wrote:

I agree. Let's look at the barbarian's version:

Quote:

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels.

So, my conclusion is that you can bypass IUD the same way a a rogue could...that is by being four levels higher of the appropriate class.

Edit: Never mind, I see your point.

Uncanny Dodge says you can't be flat-footed ever. With no line about being able to bypass it, the ability simply doesn't work against anyone with Uncanny Dodge.

This also isn't really a rules question because the problem results from 3rd party material, not Paizo material.

Oh, I didn't know psionics were 3rd party in pathfinder. The website just says psionics >.< I'm still learning what's official, what's 3rd party, and what's homebrew.

[Claxon]

Tela wrote:

Oh, I didn't know psionics were 3rd party in pathfinder. The website just says psionics >.< I'm still learning what's official, what's 3rd party, and what's homebrew.

On d20pfsrd, if you scroll down to the very bottom of the page (for almost all entries) it tells you what the source is.

For that entry, when you look at the bottom you will see it says:

Quote:

Psionics Expanded. Copyright 2011, Dreamscarred Press.

Dreamscarred Press is a 3rd party, obviously. As they are not Paizo. Frequently it arises that the are disputes or discrepancies.

We may be able to get this thread moved to the compatible products forum, where the manufacturer may be able to provide input on exactly that they meant when the ability was written.

[Jeremy Smith]

We'll have to clean up the wording.

the intent was to do the same thing as the barbarian ability, but without actually granting the (Improved) Uncanny Dodge benefit.