Does "When you encounter" happen before "Before the encounter ?"


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Spells such as Toxic Cloud and Incendiary Cloud state they can be played "When you encounter a bane"

Does this happen before any "Before the encounter effects" such as, in the latest adventure pack, a check on a monster to see if you can play attack spells ?

It's important as the order would effect whether the toxic cloud spell could be played at all.


Yes, it does. When you encounter happens before evade even, because the moment you flip the card or place the summoned monster in front of you, the encounter has begun.

To help clear up the confusion over these terms, before and after the encounter are being renamed in Skull and Shackles.


Thanks - thought that was the case.

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Yes, it does. When you encounter happens before evade even, because the moment you flip the card or place the summoned monster in front of you, the encounter has begun.

To help clear up the confusion over these terms, before and after the encounter are being renamed in Skull and Shackles.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:


To help clear up the confusion over these terms, before and after the encounter are being renamed in Skull and Shackles.

That's really helpful - I always found the "after the encounter this morning deals X damage" things odd - after the encounter, the card is back in the box...


Do the cloud spells have the attack trait? I don't think they do, but I'm not looking at my cards so I could be wrong. Anyway, my point is that not all spells that add to combat checks are attack spells; only the ones that have the attack trait.

But as has been stated above, the time for those spells is immediately upon encountering the card, so even if they are attack spells, you can play them before you have to make that check.


They do have the attack trait. There is a little bit of discussion over here about them that is interesting.

Notice that there are lots of ways these kind of encounters can work out:

1. A monster that forbids "you" to play cards with the attack trait (Scarecrow Golem): The encountering character can't play it, but anyone else can. If it was already in effect, the effect would still apply.
2. A monster that has a Before the Encounter check that might prohibit "you" from playing cards with the attack trait (Goblin Warchanter): The encountering character and any other character can play it, because it would be played before the check that stops the Attack trait. If the encountering character failed, they couldn't play Swipe, but anyone else could.
3. A monster that had a Before the Encounter check that might prohibit anyone from playing cards with the Attack trait (Harpy): The encountering character and any other character can play it, because it would be played before the check that stops the Attack trait. Anyone that failed couldn't play Swipe.
4. A monster immune to the Attack trait: No one could play it on the encounter. But if it was already in effect, the effect would still apply (at least for the spells we've seen) since the dice that come from the spell don't have the Attack trait.


Number four doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't the dice have the attack trait? If it was a poison cloud, for instance, the dice would have the poison trait. So why the difference? If a monster is immune to something, why does it matter if it was cast during a previous encounter?


Because of how traits and immunity work. Here is the immunity rule:

Rulebook v3 p10 wrote:
If the card you’re encountering states that it is immune to a particular trait, players may not play cards with the specified trait, use powers that would add that trait to the check, or roll dice with that trait during the encounter.

When you play Toxic Cloud, the card has the Attack trait. But the traits of Toxic Cloud aren't added to the check, so only what traits are mentioned as being added in the power of the card.

"Toxic Cloud wrote:

Display this car when a character encounters a bane. Any character who encounters a monster this turn adds 1d6 with the Poison trait to her combat check. Discard this card at the end of this turn.

If you do not have the Arcane skill, banish this card.

So, looking at the rule:

1. Players may not play cards with the specified trait. Toxic Cloud was played earlier, so you aren't playing it now.
2. Use powers that would add that trait to the check. Toxic Cloud isn't doing that either.
3. Roll dice with that trait during the encounter. Toxic Cloud's die have the Poison trait because the power told you that, but not the Attack trait. So this doesn't apply either.

So if a monster was immune to the Poison trait, you couldn't roll the die from Toxic Cloud. But the die doesn't have the Attack trait, so you can roll them if the card was already in effect even if the monster is immune to the Attack trait.


OK. Makes sense as far as the rules go; I just wonder if, like the Forgefiend issue with weapon master Valeros we were just discussing, this is a case in which rigid adherence to the rules distorts the intent behind the monster. Not a huge deal either way, though.

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