FrodoOf9Fingers
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So, quick question on when a will save is to be rolled:
Illusional character is about 400 feet away from a dragon. Dragon spends a few rounds buffing itself. Then it flies stright for said illusion, preparing to cast Dispel Magic on it's gear. Eventually, it will attack said illusional character.
Assuming said illusion does nothing out of the ordinary, when should the dragon get the save?
When it see's said illusion?
When it moves towards said illusion?
When it picks out an item to cast dispel magic on?
When it casts dispel magic on the gear of said illusion?
When it attacks said illusion?
I'm leaning on when it casts dispel magic, but some of the group is going for when the dragon picks out an item to dispel.
| jesterle |
"Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion."
The dragon needs to spend a standard action to study carefully the illusion it be allowed a disbelief roll. If the dragon stops and spends a standard action to study the illusion to decide which item to caste its dispel magic on then I would allow the disbelief roll at that time.
If the dragon does not spend a standard action to study it carefully then the first disbelief roll should occur when the dragon physically attacks the illusion.
Unfortunately illusion magic is one of the area's in the game that many people disagree on how to play. Your gaming group should discuss how you are going to treat illusions in your game before you begin to play.
| Darksol the Painbringer |
When it casts dispel magic on the gear of said illusion.
There is the answer.
As the above poster mentioned, creatures who come across an illusion do not receive saving throws against knowing if it's fake or not unless they study it carefully (assuming something akin to a "search" check via Perception, normally requiring a Standard Action or more), or interact with it in some fashion (in this case, casting a Dispel Magic on the illusion). No action is being taken to select which item or equipment the Dragon wants to Dispel (it's simply the target of the spell chosen upon casting the spell), meaning it's not really studying the creature or its items carefully.
Since the dragon in-question is not taking the time to see if the creature in question is infact real, and does no interaction with said creature until it engages in combat (via Dispel Magic), no saving throws are allotted until either of those events come to pass.
And yes, the Illusion school is fairly vague as to what constitutes interacting or studying a creature, but there are several abilities that refer to studying or interacting with creatures in the throes of combat, and those abilities should be seen as guidelines for running the Illusion school in terms of how to arbitrarily adjudicate the rules.
| Darksol the Painbringer |
What if the dragon has blindsight or blindsense?
Not sure how this is relevant. If the illusion functions exactly like the character, it doesn't otherwise tell the difference between an illusion or not until it interacts with it or spends time trying to discern if it is real or not.
Unless the illusion only functions based on sight alone (which most illusions do not; shadow evocations are a prime example of this), and some illusion abilities specifically call out as creatures not having sight are immune to so-and-so effects, then blindsight or blindsense does nothing.