So in playing PFS the other day a situation came up that I became curious about while everyone else kind of went with it. A character bull rushed multiple enemies and I began to wonder where they're supposed to go once there's more than one. I checked the CRB and it seemed unclear to me. I'll ask the question in three different ways of varying situation to get everyone's ideas on what happens here.
Situation A: a character bull rushes a goblin (deciding to move with him) and is able to move him 15 feet. The goblin has a second goblin immediately behind him and the character wants to shove him too (because take that goblin!!), he succeeds in the check and is able to move him 10 feet (still the 15 total feet from the previous goblin). They move the distance and bull rush ends. Where does everyone go?
Situation B: The same character (out for goblin blood) does the same thing with the same results... EXCEPT THIS TIME the last square the goblins would hit has a wall before they finish moving. Now where does everyone go?
Situation C: The same character travels back in time to try situation B again... EXCEPT THIS TIME he's not playing around. He whips out his shield (recalling that he has shield slam and wants to use it) he smashes the front goblin into the second goblin and bull rushes them both back into that same wall. Now where are they? Are they both prone in the same square?
Thoughts?
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If I understand your questions[and Bull Rush rules] well enough, I believe the answers are :
A:xxxYGGxxx
A:xxxxxxYGG
B:xxxYGGxxW
B:xxxxxxYGP
C:xxxYGGxxW
C:xxxxxxYPP
Key:
x=empty square
Y=you
G=Goblin
P=Prone Goblin
W=Wall.
Basically, the first scenario you move both goblins back a little and follow, the second one you smash one into a wall and he falls with the other one still up, and the last you knock them both back, one hits the other and falls, and the other hits a wall and falls.
NOTE:I'm not too familiar with the rules on bull rushing[they are weird and its a rarely used Combat Maneuver], so I could be wrong. Also note that the wall is still there afterwards.
Currently we are in bull rush heaven. While I agree with your assessment of A, Things start to get weird at B. Why would the goblin be pouring? Normally there isn't anything written saying that a bull rushed creature becomes prone when they contact a wall out other solid object. If I can push both goblins into the wall, and they aren't prone, where do they end up?
C seems strange to me too, as in order for them both to be prone, they would both need contact with the wall, while the one in the square in front of the wall makes sense, I don't get why the other would be 10 feet from the wall, and I would be 15 feet from it, especially if I followed them all the way to the point where they hit the wall.
Actually A is kind of weird too as both creatures should only move the same distance, so you would imagine them to be in the same square with you next to them when the rush ends... Only they can't both be in the same square...
First was the origonal example done with a shield alam?
Basically normal bulllrush is like this. Ypu make your attempt against a gobglin and get 15 above is cmd. There is another goblin behind him.
You make a check at -4 the two goblins wont move any further than the second check allows. Ie if you beat the second goblins cmd by 5 they both only move 5 more feat.
They stop if they hit a wall they are never in eachothers square.
Exception shield slam provides a rule that only works wity shield slam. If you sl and hit a wall the target falls prone. But only with shield slam.
I understand that shield slam is the exception, I'm just wondering where they all go when you slam them into the wall.
Without shield slam everyone just stops in a row in front of the wall?
But where do they go if you do have shield slam? In a pile in front if the wall?
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Well, they would follow the rules of movement. They would both become prone in the same square. Since it's an illegal position to share the same square as your ally, follow this rule:
"Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer."
Don't mean to rathole, but all this talk of bull rushing reminded me of an encounter today. We were trying to get information out of a Storekeeper, when our 5 Charisma min/maxer decided to try and intimidate him with these words:
"You know, I used to be a storekeeper like you, but then I took a bull rush to the face"
He then promptly smiled, showing off all his missing teeth and snarled face. The GM was nice, had the store keeper call the guard, but the failed intimidate attempt resulted in 5 XP :)
They never enter another persons square in the first place. Only one of them will hit the wall and fall prone. You cant force two creatures into the same space.
They never enter another persons square in the first place. Only one of them will hit the wall and fall prone. You cant force two creatures into the same space.
That's kind of disappointing... at least we're still shoving people all over the place...
Another question on the bull rush, if I rush someone into a pit or whatever, they just fall, no save right?