Summon Monster - Elementals - Positive Energy Elemental

[TyrKnight]

So the PFSRD Summon Monster spell table links to a whole bunch of elemental types -- the traditional four, some combinations (like mud), and also positive and negative energy elementals. If you can summon a large elemental with a fifth level spell, are positive energy elementals permitted? I don't see anything RAW that forbids it, but it's getting far afield from the traditional wizard role of summoning those types of things.

[wraithstrike]

Any of the elemental types can be summoned, but the positive and negative energy ones are 3rd party creations, so you would need your GM's permission for anything not created by Pathfinder. If you look at the monster's statblock it will tell you which company made it.

PS: There are few others that are not created by Paizo either such as the gravity elemental.

[TyrKnight]

Ah, thank you! Somehow I missed that it was 3P content.

[Cardinal Chunder]

JJ did chime in about this and the intent was to limit what could be summoned to the original listing of the spell so nothing beyond the standard earth, air, water and fire elementals. Also nothing beyond fiendish or celestial templates. That is the reason there have been no updates to the CRB version of the summon monster spell about what can be summoned.

RAW what you are limited to summoning is listed in the spell description, that is what forbids it. Anything else is a houserule.

FWIW allowing all the various elementals could lead to balance issues.

But as always, ask your GM.

[Azten]

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

Also nothing beyond fiendish or celestial templates. That is the reason there have been no updates to the CRB version of the summon monster spell about what can be summoned.

That's because it's stealthily added in the bestiaries. See the Resolute template. Entropic template says the same thing.

[Cardinal Chunder]

Azten wrote:

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

Also nothing beyond fiendish or celestial templates. That is the reason there have been no updates to the CRB version of the summon monster spell about what can be summoned.

That's because it's stealthily added in the bestiaries. See the Resolute template. Entropic template says the same thing.

Never saw that.

My LE conjurer is most happy...

[Azten]

Like I said, stealthy. At least +10 on the Stealth check. :)

No such language for the elementals though.

[David knott 242]

But the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally lists only specify "Elemental" -- they do not specify "one of the four types listed in the (first) Bestiary". On that basis, the Bestiary 2 Elementals appear to be fair game.

[Deliox Creed]

i would think so as well, no where have i seen that your limited by what type of elemental you can summon, only thier size based on the spell

[TyrKnight]

I agree that Bestiary 2 elementals would be fair game. But that's definitely a 3PP creature, so I can see why that would be restricted by DM. And being able to summon 1d3+1 large positive energy elementals with channel energy would be pretty powerful.

[TwoWolves]

IMO, if the creature's entry in the bestiary is "Elemental, X" then you can summon it. If it's something else but with the elemental subtype, then no.

And 3PP stuff throws everything out the window and into your DM's lap.