Making the most out of Paladin 12

[Brolthemighty]

Alright, so I'm currently playing in a WotR campaign. We have a larger party of 6 individuals. We just hit level 8...and it's become a crossroads for me. Here's the full breakdown of what's going on.

Current Group
- Paladin (unsure build, not a lot of damage output)
- Monk (Flowing/Sacred Mountain Monk, decent damage build)
- Rogue/Magus (building towards Arcane Trickster)
- Mystic Theurge (unsure of exact build)
- Cleric (Healbot build)

That's the group. We're heavy in melee, but without any real damage output...although the monk is starting to ramp up well. We have just hit level 8, and Mythic Tier 2.

My build has been....fluid. I had started out a Dual Style Spell-Less Ranger, going for a damage build. When I noticed how many melee we had, I figured we had damage covered, and went for a more Reach/Control build by MC'ing in to Lorewarden. Two levels of Monk of Styles for some nice trip action on AoO's through Wolf Style, and I figured I had the Reach/Control down.

But we are now at a crossroads. Our damage dealers are not...dealing much damage due to DR (many hits, but weak ones vs. few and strong). I was recently able to pick up a nice armor set...which has inspired me to follow the path it has set.

:

Armor of the Pious from the second book

So now I'm thinking that Paladin is the way I should be going. And I need to be adding some damage to my repertoire. This is where you come in. I have 12 levels of Paladin to take. How should I proceed? Go with a Oath of Vengeance, Warrior of the Holy Light...or with a Stonelord Paladin? If Stonelord, I would need a lvl of Oracle for fatigue immunity, but still. Anyone have a suggestion? Oh, here's my stats/feats:

Str: 20
Dex: 10
Con: 16
Int: 13
Wis: 11
Cha: 13

Traits
- Exposed to Awfulness
- Glory of Old
- Adopted (Halfling [Helpful])

Drawback
- Meticulous

Feats
Lvl 1: Skill Focus (Survival)
Lvl 2 (Ranger 2 [2 Combat Styles]): Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Slam
Lvl3: Steel Soul
Lvl3 (Fighter 1 [Bonus Feat]): Combat Reflexes
Lvl 4 (Fighter 2 [Bonus Feat]): Chain Flail Master
Lvl 4 (Fighter 2 [Lorewarden]): Combat Expertise
Lvl5: Eldritch Heritage (Orc)
Lvl5 (Devotion Bonus): Bodyguard
Lvl 6 (Fighter 4 [Bonus Feat]): Improved Trip
Lvl7: Leadership (For cohort in background at operations base)
Lvl 7 (Monk1): Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike
Lvl 7 (Monk 1 [Bonus Feat]): Wolf Style
Lvl 8 (Monk 2): Toughness
Lvl 8 (Monk 2 [Bonus Feat]): Wolf Trip

Everything is pretty much set in stone unless the whole party agrees to a group rebuild, taking some unknown penalty that the GM sets....which he has guaranteed will hurt. The GM has allowed me to take Optimistic Gambler with the Additional Traits feat, so I'll be taking that at 9 (as well as Community Minded).

TL;DR I need help.

[master_marshmallow]

I would personally vote that you go with the Sacred Servant build and grab the Travel Domain, but that may not be possible depending on your deity.

Travel Domain would give you yet another +10 to your move speed, and the agile feet thing would also be really useful.

For a build that just level dips, I can't really tell you because you aren't going to be as strong as a pure build without any real focus or goal as to what you are building up to.

What is your basic combat strategy? It doesn't look like you have much damage potential, despite your STR score.

Why the monk levels? Why no Power Attack?

[Brolthemighty]

My basic fighting style was to be a reach/lockdown build utilizing trips. I took the Mythic ability Retributive Reach towards that end. It's actually worked decently as well, triggering a good number of AoO's. However, up until this point they've been fairly paltry hits.

I was going Monk 2 for the prereq free Wolf Style feats, since that'd give me free trips with my AoO's. That, and 2 levels would help boost up my saves a bit. My plan was to then return to fighter and finish out all the way to 20. However...now that I'm going Paladin, they were definitely a mistake. Unfortunately, not one that I can undo without a group agreement for rebuilds...at a cost.

Power Attack was my next Fighter feat taken. I hadn't taken it because I didn't want to up my damage and step on the toes of the damage dealers...but I've now been told not to worry about it.

[Brolthemighty]

Anyone else have some input....or am I just hosed?

[Brolthemighty]

Brolthemighty wrote:

Anyone else have some input....or am I just hosed?

So I thought I'd do one last thread necro to see if anyone has some input for me, before I wave the whiteflag. We've hit lvl 9, and I'm taking Community Minded and Optimistic Gambler through the Additional Traits feat.

For my next set of tricks I'm going with Power Attack (taking Mythic Version) and Vital Strike (again Mythic version). Anyone else have ideas?

[Bacon666]

Due to your relative Low cha, I would skip paladin and either keep going ranger or fighter.

Ranger gives many non combat abilities and further gives feats. Weapon focus and weapon spec will help your dmg output much...

What are you hoping to get from paladin?

[Corvino]

That is a lot of dips, and I'd tend to agree with Bacon666 that due to middling charisma that adding Paladin levels might not help much. There's a lot to be said for getting higher level benefits from each class in Pathfinder.

The party you list as a whole doesn't seem very optimized - Rogue/Magus/Arcane trickster for example synergises really badly and healbot Clerics are pretty retro.

[Brolthemighty]

Actually, I realize my stats for Paladin are way off. I was thinking of taking Paladin due to the ongoing story we're encountering in the Wrath AP. I was even able to convert another Dwarf to Ragathiel.

Although I was looking to take Paladin for RP and story reasons, I'm still hoping that the boards here can help me on how to make the best out of it...or if I'm just hosed. I was looking at either stone lord since it interacts less with Charisma, or the full-on Sacred Servant, Oath of Vengeance, Warrior of Holy Light.

I also considered going for the recently released Sentinel PrC but I'd have to switch to Torag. That too would give a Holy Warrior feel.....

@Corvino

It IS a lot of dips. My build was originally straight Ranger...and then adapted to fit the needs of the group each time. It now looks like I'm paying the piper for that. And yes, our group is terribly built, and most of the individuals are beyond unoptimized in to the realm of dis functional. I personally am voting for the ability to adjust builds to work better together.

[Corvino]

Not every holy warrior needs to be a paladin. A Fighter, Ranger or Monk dedicated to their deity is similar from a flavor point of view, just lacking a few divine tricks and the code. Mechanically it doesn't look like you'll gain much for adding in Paladin levels, while you'll probably gain more from Lore Warden or Ranger.

If you do opt for a rebuild then get your group to discuss their combat and noncombat roles as well as character concepts. It seems you've given it quite a bit of thought, but "healbot" is not a useful combat role in Pathfinder, while Controller, Buffer/Debuffer and Summoner are all ways your casting-focused cleric could contribute more. As for Rogue/Magus/Arcane Trickster - it loses a huge amount compared to other class combos. If your friend wants to play an arcane trickster then there's quite a good guide here that I found very useful reading.

[Brolthemighty]

Yeah, the final straw for going Paladin was because I was gifted a suit of Armor of the Pious. Sounds like Paladin could be a really bad option then.