Abilities: 84 points, 1-to-1 buy, nothing above 18 before racial mod, nothing below 10 even with racial mod
Alignment: no evil
Sources: anything Paizo published is fine, 3pp might be approved (however, I personally would prefer to stick with things I can build in Hero Labs)
Races: monsterous allowed if no more than a 1 HD starting adjustment
Traits: 2 with it being strongly suggested that 1 be from the campaign guide
Starting Cash: 2000 gp
Hero Points: the system is in use for our group (a few key BBEG’s may also have hero points)
PC’s
- Wyveran (sp?) draconic race from Bestiary 4, psionic marksman, level 1 (due to race) – primary combat role is Hammer (damage dealer), secondary combat role is Anvil (feats to trip at range), out of combat roles scout, tracker, and sense motive
- Halfling, paladin mounted riding gecko lizard, level 2 – primary combat role is Hammer (damage dealer), secondary combat role is Anvil (feats to knock people back or down with charge attack), out of combat role is party face (high cha and skill pts into diplomacy and intimidate)
- ME – Human, witch, level 2 - primary combat role is Arm (allied support), secondary combat role is Anvil (interfering with enemy activities), out of combat knowledge and other int skills
- Wxxxxx construct race from Bestiary 4, maneuver monk, level 1 (due to race) – primary combat role is Anvil (controlling and interfering with the enemy), secondary combat role is Hammer (beating on things), out of combat roles scout and sense motive
I’m looking for some help here to help him since I’ve never built a monk before.
So, here’s what I am looking at so far.
Race: Construct, it begins with a ‘W’ and is in Bestiary 4 but I don’t remember the name off the top of my head.
Alignment: LG or LN
Class: Monk
Archtype: Maneuver Master
Group might agree that everyone take a teamwork feat (lookout, stealth synergy, and shake it off are currently being discussed)
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 10
Traits: Dangerously Curious (OR) Reactionary for +2 to initiative, (one from Reign of Winter Players Guide, but I haven't downloaded it yet)
Feats
1 Improved Initiative
1B Improved Trip
2B Improved Disarm
3 teamwork feat
5 Improved Grapple
6B Greater Trip
7 Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike
9 Jaw Breaker
10B Greater Disarm
11 Elemental Fist
13 Bone Breaker
14B Tripping Strike
15 Neck Breaker
This is a first pass, so probably needs lots of work.
I think the stats may be a little off; monks tend to need more strength and less dexterity, and I think you may have room to go down a bit in intelligence and charisma. Reactionary is probably better than dangerously curious, as you'll be rolling initiative a lot more often than you'll be waving wands around.
I have never found the Thing Breaker feat chain to be particularly useful but your mileage (or flavor) may vary. I'd be tempted to substitute some of the weapon (esp. ranged weapon) feats so that you have something to do when you're faced with an ungrappleable foe.
That's actually a problem with this concept; maneuver-based builds are situational. They tend to lose effectiveness as levels go up and CMDs skyrocket, and the person you describe is of no use at all against a flying enemy.
I can't remember where, but I thought I remembered reading that maneuver builds needed more dex.
Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the Breaker line either. What replacements would you suggest?
Yes it is not always possible to use the maneuvers, he will be a secondary Hammer when maneuvers don't work. But I do seem to have forgotten to put any emphasis vs. ranged/flying opponents.
Though I would assume this character will get something to fly/levitate fairly soon.
Yeah, I wasn't too sure about the Breaker line either. What replacements would you suggest?
Can't go wrong with Point Blank and Precise Shots.
Rapid Grappler is one of the gems for a maneuver master.
Race: Construct, it begins with a ‘W’ and is in Bestiary 4 but I don’t remember the name off the top of my head.
Alignment: LG or LN
Class: Monk
Archtype: Maneuver Master
Group might agree that everyone take a teamwork feat (lookout, stealth synergy, and shake it off are currently being discussed)
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 10
Traits: Reactionary for +2 to initiative, (one from Reign of Winter Players Guide, but I haven't downloaded it yet)
Feats
1 Improved Initiative
1B Improved Trip
2B Improved Disarm
3 teamwork feat
5 Improved Grapple
6B Greater Grapple
7 Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike
9 Ki Throw
10B Rapid Grappler
11 Elemental Fist
13 Improved Bull Rush
14B Improved Ki Throw
15 Spinning Throw
The ranged feats did not seem all that effective with the weapons he would have proficiency with. Though I agree he should always have one to use at need. So I will tell him that a magic item to allow flight will be a key item to purchase early.
How does this seem?
Any other suggestions or concerns with this build?
Alrighty then, here's what I am suggesting to him.
Whosits
Wyrwood Monk (Maneuver Master) 1
LG Small construct
Hero Points 1
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 17, touch 17, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex, +1 size, +3 untyped)
hp 18 (1d8+10)
Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +5; +1 trait bonus vs. the spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities of evil arcane spellcasters.
Immune construct traits
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee masterwork temple sword +5 (1d6+3/19-20) and
. . unarmed strike +4 (1d4+3)
Ranged masterwork underwater light crossbow +5 (1d6/19-20)
Special Attacks stunning fist (1/day, DC 13)
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 16, Con —, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +2 (+4 trip); CMD 18 (20 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Traits reactionary, warded against witchery
Skills Acrobatics +7, Craft (carpentry) +8, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +7, Sense Motive +7, Stealth +11
Languages Common, Common, Dwarven, Gnome
SQ ac bonus, flurry of maneuvers, hero points, monk vows (vow of celibacy, vow of fasting), stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds, acid (2), alchemical grease (2), alchemist's fire (2), alkali flask (2), bottled lightning (2), caltrops (2), frost ward gel (2), heatstone, holy water (3), smoke pellet, weapon blanch (adamantine), weapon blanch (cold iron), weapon blanch (ghost salt), weapon blanch (silver); Other Gear crossbow bolts (40), masterwork temple sword, masterwork underwater light crossbow, masterwork artisan's tools, backpack, masterwork, belt pouch, grappling hook, manacles, masterwork, marbles, marbles, silk rope, swarmsuit, whetstone, 21 pp, 1 gp, 7 sp, 8 cp
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
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Acid - 0/2
Alchemical grease - 0/2
Alchemist's fire - 0/2
Alkali flask - 0/2
Bottled lightning - 0/2
Crossbow bolts - 0/40
Frost ward gel - 0/2
Holy water - 0/3
Potion of cure moderate wounds - 0/1
Smoke pellet - 0/1
Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 13) - 0/1
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Special Abilities
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AC Bonus +3 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flurry of Maneuvers (1 maneuver, -2) (Ex) At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in pl
Hero Points (1) Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Immunity to Ability Damage Immunity to ability damage
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleeds You are immune to bleeds.
Immunity to Death and Necromancy effects You are immune to Death and Necromancy effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Non-lethal Damage You are immune to Non-Lethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Stunning Fist (1/day) (DC 13) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Swarmsuit DR 5/- vs. Diminutive Swarms, DR 10/- vs. Fine swarms.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Vow of Celibacy (+1 Ki) The monk must abstain from all sexual and intimate physical activity. A monk with this vow takes it to an extreme, refusing to even share a room with another person, or sleeping on the opposite side of a camp from other people in a group. A celibate
Vow of Fasting (+1 Ki) The monk eats nothing but rice (or a similar bland, staple food) and drinks nothing but water. On certain days (usually once per month or on a religious holiday), he may eat a small portion of other simple, bland food to maintain proper nutrition. Th
Warded Against Witchery +1 to spellcraft to ID spells of evil arcane spellcasters, +1 to save vs thier spells and abilities.
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Feats
1 Improved Initiative
1B Improved Trip
2B Improved Disarm
3 teamwork feat
5 Improved Grapple
6B Greater Grapple
7 Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike
9 Ki Throw
10B Rapid Grappler
11 Elemental Fist
13 Improved Bull Rush
14B Improved Ki Throw
15 Spinning Throw
1 level MM-Monk, rest Lore Warden is way more effective.
1 level MM-Monk, rest Lore Warden is way more effective.
I understand that opinion (not sure I entirely agree though). I will give that option to him, but I think he wants to play a monk.
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@Wasum Not true. There are quite a few potent benefits to be had with additional levels of maneuver master.
@op I have a lorewarden/Maneuver Master who works quite well. Disregard the statements about cmd scaling out of reach. If you are built well, you can consistently hit cmd 40+ on average rolls between levels 8-10. That is more than enough to get you through all but the worst foes. If you have or use buffs you do even better. If you take additional levels of maneuver master you also get to use your wisdom modifier as an added bonus to any single maneuver, or roll twice on any maneuver you wish and take the better result- each round. If you are using bullrush and especially if you're using the ki throw line of feats then pauldrons of the bull are an excellent and powerful option. This allows you to roll twice on the ki throw and roll twice on the bullrush or enhance the bull rush and roll twice on the throw, etc. You have options and you have plenty of power.
If you are willing, you can wear some armor and make use of the brawling enchantment which will increase your damage and you trip/throw attempts. They're amazing. However, you do lose the fast movement, fob (which you lost anyway) and wisdom to ac. Doing so actually encourages you to be somewhat more offensive since, from what I can tell, being an armored monk results in a lower ac than an unarmored one (strange huhn?).
When I built mine for pfs, I went with a 19 starting Str and pumped it to 20 asap. I believe his con started at 13 or 14, also. One of the drawbacks/considerations is the belt slot. There are several great belts for the build but the ones which enhance your maneuvers only give +2 Str (although they do give perks like ignoring difficult terrain when you charge, etc). The catch is that you lose the damage by not having a Str belt. And while the specialist belts are better at the maneuvers they enhance, you become about 2 points worse at all the rest since you lack the Str bonus from the Str belt.
Also, have you considered dragon style? Depending on your goals, it can be a real boon. It favors a very high Str build, though.
One thing people are correct about, though- combat maneuvers and flying enemies don't often mix very well at all. Can't trip flyers, can't overrun them, etc. Be sure to have ways to fly every single combat when you can. Consider also that at higher levels, the monk fast movement is less important since the general consensus seems to be that increasing numbers of enemies fly, probably to the point that more than half off them fly. The rare few encounters against a non-flying enemy means that you will be at advantage from having flight. Flight usually is faster than land speed. So consider that when thinking about my statement of armor and what you lose for wearing it.
My monk even uses a shield- confuses everybody.
Have you looked at Style feats yet? One feat spent in the Mantis Style tree gives a nifty DC boost to Stunning Fist, if he's looking for a way to lock down another enemy/apply a quick debuff.
Alternatively, I'd really suggest Snapping Turtle Style - if his AC gets up to a decent level, it'll give him free opportunities to grapple. It also gives him a little extra CMD (only +1-2, nothing amazing) and reduces the chances of him being critically hit - which, lets face it, is one of the only things high AC monks need to worry about.
... If you are built well, you can consistently hit cmd 40+ on average rolls between levels 8-10. That is more than enough to get you through all but the worst foes.....
Do you think the above build fits into "built well"?