Bestow Curse, then curse removed by caster

[Ultrann]

If the imbuer of Bestow Curse, who for whatever reason changes his mind and later wants to cast Remove Curse on the victim, does he/she have to make a caster level check to remove their own curse, or is it automatic? If still a caster level check, would there be a bonus?

I don't see any rules about this, and maybe it all falls under DM fiat.

Thanks

[Kaelan Ashenveil]

Still have to make the caster level check. You could houserule they get a bonus, but RAW, you still have to caster level check it.

Basically your ability to cast curses doesn't necessarily translate you to being good at removing them.

[MattR1986]

Something like this, it would definitely make sense to houserule it as being Dismissable i.e. Lifting the Curse when you feel gracious or they've made amends, but as was said you'd normally RAW have to do it just like anyone else would.

[Lifat]

AFAIK RAW is that you have to remove it with something like remove curse and then make a caster level check.
Personally speaking I'd still require the remove curse spell to be used, but if you are using remove curse to remove one of your own curses, then I would probably waive the CL check.

[Robert A Matthews]

There is no caster level check regardless of whether you cast it or if someone else did. Remove Curse specifically dispels Bestow Curse.

[MattR1986]

Wrong.

Quote:

Remove curse can remove all curses on an object or a creature. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each curse affecting the target. Success means that the curse is removed. Remove curse does not remove the curse from a cursed shield, weapon, or suit of armor, although a successful caster level check enables the creature afflicted with any such cursed item to remove and get rid of it.

Remove curse counters and dispels bestow curse.

[Robert A Matthews]

MattR1986 wrote:

Wrong.

Quote:

Remove curse can remove all curses on an object or a creature. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each curse affecting the target. Success means that the curse is removed. Remove curse does not remove the curse from a cursed shield, weapon, or suit of armor, although a successful caster level check enables the creature afflicted with any such cursed item to remove and get rid of it.

Remove curse counters and dispels bestow curse.

How does what you bolded make me wrong? If anything it makes me right. Casting a diametrically opposed spell as a dispel automatically works.

[Majuba]

To clarify, the language "X counters and dispels Y" can be read as "You can use X to counter or dispel Y" - it's two separate effects.

For the OP's question: it's automatic to remove your own bestow curse with remove curse and greater dispel magic, but not break enchantment. The first because of the last line of the spell (as above), the second because dispel magic says you automatically dispel your own spells, and the greater version lets you remove curses. The last does not work automatically, because it does not say it operates as dispel magic.

[blahpers]

Work the ability to remove the curse into the curse itself.

"I curse you to be a clumsy oaf until I decide you've suffered enough!"

[blahpers]

Robert A Matthews wrote:

MattR1986 wrote:

Wrong.

Quote:

Remove curse can remove all curses on an object or a creature. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each curse affecting the target. Success means that the curse is removed. Remove curse does not remove the curse from a cursed shield, weapon, or suit of armor, although a successful caster level check enables the creature afflicted with any such cursed item to remove and get rid of it.

Remove curse counters and dispels bestow curse.

How does what you bolded make me wrong? If anything it makes me right. Casting a diametrically opposed spell as a dispel automatically works.

I'd never noticed that. So removing a bestow curse with remove curse is automatic. Neat.

I wonder if major curse is defeated the same way. It does say that it "functions as bestow curse".

[MattR1986]

You can use Remove Curse to counter it (which you obviously can't do unless you somehow and for some reason cast a spell then as an immediate action counter it), but you need Dispel Magic and automatically pass.

edit: it depends on if you interpret it to mean counters and dispels in a redundant way as it counters it and thus removes it, or if you can use it as Dispel Magic as well.

[Majuba]

That's what that language means Matt - it can be used as an automatic counter, or it can be used to automatically dispel. One of the strongest is haste vs. slow.

FYI - dispel magic can't remove curses.

[Robert A Matthews]

MattR1986 wrote:

You can use Remove Curse to counter it (which you obviously can't do unless you somehow and for some reason cast a spell then as an immediate action counter it), but you need Dispel Magic and automatically pass.

edit: it depends on if you interpret it to mean counters and dispels in a redundant way as it counters it and thus removes it, or if you can use it as Dispel Magic as well.

It's saying that it both counters and dispels. Break it up into two sentences. Remove Curse counters Bestow Curse. Remove Curse dispels Bestow Curse. There is no other way to interpret it if you are using the English language to interpret it.

Quote:

I'd never noticed that. So removing a bestow curse with remove curse is automatic. Neat.

I wonder if major curse is defeated the same way. It does say that it "functions as bestow curse".

I'd say no it doesn't work. Major Curse even though it functions as Bestow Curse is not Bestow Curse. It is a different spell completely even if it is similar. You could say that since it functions as Bestow curse the line that says "it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell." might mean you can remove it. In that case, you'd have to make a caster level check as it is still a different spell.

[MattR1986]

Well it would have been a little better had they actually put it "both" counters and dispels, but considering there would be no option to dispel later if it weren't for remove curse, that must be what it means as opposed to something like "it slices and dices (it's meant as part of the same thing and not slices or dices)