Glibness and Discern Lies

[Adam Luchjenbroers]

If a given individual has Glibness pre-cast and someone attempts to use Discern Lies on them, do they then know if they pierced some kind of effect (if successful) or are aware that they failed to pierce some effect (if unsuccessful).

Since it's a targeted effect that allows a will save, the caster would know if they passed that save.

PRD wrote:

Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

Reference: Magic, Saving Throws

So far, this has been the only relevant information I can find (I haven't even been able to find a reference for whether you'd know if you failed to pierce SR or not), even though this interpretation would nerf the spell quite a bit (they can't tell if you're lying, but they know you've got a spell effect up to help you lie).

As a GM, I'd probably rule it that if they fail to pierce the effect, it feels identical to if you passed your will save. They'd know you resisted, but would not be aware of how you did so.

However, I'm very interested in hearing other interpretations. Maybe someone knows a rules reference I've missed.

[concerro]

Yes the target would know they were the subjected to a spell. This spell has no language to say it gets a rules exception to being noticed on a successful save.

[Adam Luchjenbroers]

I should probably clarify my question.

Since Discern Lies is a targeted effect, the caster would know if their target succeeded at their will-save (and the target would know if they successfully resisted).

However, if they attempted to cast discern lies on someone under the influence of Glibness (which is neither a targeted spell or a saving throw, it requires a caster level check to bypass) would they be aware they succeeded or failed at bypassing an effect?

And would the target be aware that Glibness worked or failed?

I haven't been able to find anything either way on caster-level checks (which are usually made to bypass spell-resistance, so in most contexts successful resistance is fairly obvious).

[Brf]

You are asking if the caster knows his Discern Lies is ineffective because of a stronger Glibness effect, rather than a made saving throw.

I wouldn't think so. Otherwise the Glibness would have no purpose.

[MattR1986]

You only know if the person told a lie. Since things like Glibness negate this you'd simply "never" detect a lie and it would indicate truthfulness. If they give you information you know to be false and the spell has no effect, then the caster could probably figure out pretty quickly that the subject has a magical affect in place to block them. If the DM tells you that you think they're lying and you're very sure of it, the same thing would be true.