what ways to make an enemy flatfoot with a druid and still make full attacks?


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Dark Archive

Im looking at the druids 2nd lvl flame blade, and wish to utilize it in a way to make it so im hitting the targets touch and flatfoot ac at the same time (effectively ac 10) however the best way i see it is to get greater invis but it is not on the druids spellist. In which way can a druid full attack and still make them flatfoot?


You can target touch AC, or flatfooted AC, but usually not both. Touch AC almost always universally worse than flat-footed.

As flat-footed is everything but Dex to AC and Touch is pretty much only Dex to AC. There is nothing that allows you to target both at the same time, it would always be one or the other.

Also remember, having an enemy be denied their dex to AC is not the same as being flat-footed. Flat-footed is something that occurs only at the start of combat, or as the result of special feats (maybe some spells, not sure).

You want to get an enemy denied their dex, which will make their AC 10 for touch attacks. But I will go ahead and tell you outside of monks and other high dex creatures without armor or natural armor the touch AC will be easy to hit. You shouldn't worry about it.

Dark Archive

Claxon wrote:

You can target touch AC, or flatfooted AC, but usually not both. Touch AC almost always universally worse than flat-footed.

As flat-footed is everything but Dex to AC and Touch is pretty much only Dex to AC. There is nothing that allows you to target both at the same time, it would always be one or the other.

Also remember, having an enemy be denied their dex to AC is not the same as being flat-footed. Flat-footed is something that occurs only at the start of combat, or as the result of special feats (maybe some spells, not sure).

You want to get an enemy denied their dex, which will make their AC 10 for touch attacks. But I will go ahead and tell you outside of monks and other high dex creatures without armor or natural armor the touch AC will be easy to hit. You shouldn't worry about it.

Touch attack vs a flatfooted apponent... which what i was trying to convey.


Claxon, that's completely untrue. If you target a flat footed opponent with a touch attack, you will be targeting AC 10 - DEX/size penalties (against large monsters this can be much lower than 10). This can easily happen if you attack a target with a touch attack on the first round of combat before they have acted.

Moospuh: If you play as a naga aspirant druid archetype (advanced race guide) you get access to invisibility and greater invisibility on your spell list. There's probably some other ways to do it too but that's the one I immediately thought of.


I believe the plains domain lets you get pounce a few times a day without being a cat or dinosaur.

Pounce also lets you get a full attack in a surprise round (this was its original purpose).

Get a surprise round from within your move distance in a form that can wield a flame blade. Air elementals would be able to hit from 100' out.

Or convince your GM that a bipedal dinosaur can wield a scimitar for the same benefit.

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