So recently I got thinking about how to use firearms effectively, but as close to real world as possible. Personally the ability to free action reload what are supposed to be muskets always bothered me. So I got to thinking about it, and settled on a piratey design, going for multiple pistols in braces rather than pistols I reloaded really, really fast, making my pistols a brutal opening volley to a follow up attack in melee. Long story short, went on some theory-crafting, and came up with a general design. At end game, 20th level, would be carrying five brace of double-barreled pistols that I could effectively discharge all in one round, firing 9 pistols for 18 attacks. Using the Trench Fighter Archetype, and the absurd amount of feats/weapon training, managed to get an end game round's worth of damage to be 18d8+675 damage. Can only maintain it for one round, but am throwing enough fire to take down Metterak, the Dragon Prince in one round's full-attack.
But level 20 is a bit of a mythical beast and most of my games don't really tend to breach level 10 before petering out. So, I turn to you all for advice on how to make this work at earlier levels. The main idea is stacking Quick Draw, with Two-Weapon Fighting, and Double-Barreled Pistols to begin throwing a massive number of attacks, being a little devil-may-care about accuracy given the whole targeting Touch AC bit. I was curious to see what anyone interested would/could build along this line. Any takers?
Just to follow-up the main problem with your build/suggestions in the other thread, how will you be dealing with misfires?
The big advantage of being a gunslinger is the quick-clear deed: move action to clear a misfire (faster if you spend grit), vs quite a long time if you have to get your gunsmithing kit out and repair it. The mending cantrip (yours for the price of a cheap Ioun Stone) still takes 10 minutes to cast, as does Make Whole if you have a friendly spellcaster.
With a misfire on 1-2, you are likely to have to fix at least one gun after every round of firing and up to 4 wouldn't be that unusual. If they are out of action, your one-trick-pony is a lot weaker.
Anyway, I'll try building a character or two and see how they go.
Mostly, just not going to care that much about it. Ideally if enough cash/item crafters is on hand, planning to build it with +1 Reliable pistols to deal with that. If that's not enough, we can throw in Amateur Gunslinger for some help. And well I'm only planning on each pistol getting used once in a combat, and saving reloading and clearing misfires for after combat. Doesn't matter too much if a gun misfires if I'm only going to fire it once. Gunslingers who are more attached to a single gun need to clear misfires regularly, fighters who are using them once and then tossing them into a bag shouldn't need to care nearly as much. And if using Leadership/having a Witch party member on hand to get a Fortune Cackle going as mentioned, it should be a relatively rare circumstance that the guns misfiring thing to become bad enough to really become a problem.
Well, those are ways of ignoring the problem.
Personally, I've found that most GMs worth playing with will ensure that not every encounter has enough down-time between them while the party sits around waiting for the gunman to fix his guns...and if I were to be playing a witch, I would not be spending my time using a fortune hex on a gunman every battle while he killed everything.
Reliable isn't cost-effective if you're going to try to have it on all 9 guns (ok, you won't be using 9 guns until very high level whereupon you'll be wanting Infinite Sky guns) but...
Anyway, I'll try doing a build without gunslinger and see if it works, but it won't be until I get a few hours free.
No worries, take a crack at it when you've got the time. This is part of why I'm also build a bit of a switch hitter, want to be viable without any pistols whatsoever. But beyond that, part of it is just going to be not flooring the accelerator 100% of the time all the time. Fire one barrel at a time, use the melee weapons and hold the guns in reserve as backup. The whole fire the guns 18 times in a round is mostly just if there's an absolute need for as much damage on the ground as quickly as possible. In the same way that your high level casters aren't going to open the first fight of the day with their 5th level Quickened Spell and another 9th.
Really impressive when you do it, but not going to be done every combat.
1st build, the obvious one.
Gunslinger, pistolero archetype: Human, dex 18+2 = mod of +5; all ability increases go in dex. Cannot start play with a double-barrelled gun, but can make starter gun masterwork. I have also assumed that double-barrelled pistols count as light weapons (there is some disagreement about this, but as long as I am consistent with each build, comparisons will be fair).
Level; feat(s); attack(s), at 20ft; damage; notes on wealth where relevant.
1 Point-blank shot; Rapid Shot. Single shot +8; 1d8+1, or rapid shot +6/+6; 2x(1d8+1), if you could reload.
2 single shot is now +9. Still not enough gold to buy a double-barrelled pistol, but could make one for most of the 1000gp you should have.
3 Rapid Reload (double-barrelled pistol) – to be retrained later. Single shot +10, rapid shot +8/+8, or single-action double-shot +6/+6, or use rapid shot with both guns: +4/+4 and +4/+4; all shots do 1d8+1 damage. Has made 2 double-barrelled pistols, again for most of your wealth. Free action to put 2nd gun in primary hand after dropping/weapon cord the 1st.
4 Retrain rapid reload to get Two weapon fighting, now you can afford more guns or do it next level.
Single shot = +11; -4 for double, -2 for 2 weapon fighting, -2 for rapid shot. No quickdraw yet, so can’t use 3rd weapon. Therefore +5/+5 and +5/+5. Still only 4 shots.
5 Quickdraw; Deadly aim. Single shot is +12; -4 for double, -2 for TWF, -2 for rapid shot, -2 for deadly aim = +2/+2 and +2/+2 and +2/+2. 6x(1d8+1+5 (dex bonus) +4 (deadly aim) or 1d8+10)
6 Single shot is +13, iterative is +8; -4 for double, -2 for TWF, -2 for rapid shot, -2 for deadly aim = 6 shots at +3 each, and 2 shots at -2. 8x 1d8+10
7 Improved TWF. Single shot is +14, and +9. 6 shots at +4 each and 4 shots at –1 each. 10x 1d8+10. You’ve got enough money to get a belt of dex, or some magical guns. This also applies to other builds, so I’m ignoring them.
8 (Dex boost applied.) Choose eg: Precise shot, Improved Critical, Hammer the Gap, etc. Single shot is +16, iterative is +11. Deadly aim improves to –3/+6. So 6 shots at +5 each and 4 shots at +0. 10x 1d8+13.
9 Another feat. +17, +12. 6 shots at +6 and 4 at +1. 10x 1d8+14 (damage boost from pistolero archetype.)
10 +18, +13. 6 shots at +7 and 4 at +2. 10x 1d8+14.
Pretty effective at shooting, but has no other combat capability available until 8th level, and even then could do with taking Precise Shot if they don’t want to have another –4 when shooting into melee. On the positive side, has quick clear so misfires can be dealt with efficiently.
2nd build, the fighter. Trench Fighter archetype, to get the dex to damage at 3rd level. This archetype is supposedly for use in modern settings, using advanced firearms which is why it lacks anything to do with misfires or Firearm proficiency, since advanced ones are assumed to be common or martial due to ubiquity.
Again, human, dex 20 with all stat increases to dex. However, since grit isn’t a major factor, strength can be higher than before.
1 Point-blank shot; Rapid Shot; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms). Single shot +8; 1d8+1, or rapid shot +6/+6; 2x 1d8+1, if you could reload.
2 Quickdraw. Single shot +9, rapid shot, using 2 single barrelled pistols is +7/+7; 2x 1d8+1
3 Two Weapon Fighting. Single shot +10, -4 for double, -2 for TWF, -2 for rapid shot = +2/+2 and +2/+2 and +6 (single) all 5 shots do 1d8+6 damage (Dex bonus adds to damage). Has made 2 double-barrelled pistols, again for most of your wealth and sold one normal pistol. Free action to draw 3rd (normal) gun in primary hand after dropping/weapon cord the 1st. This level is clearly better than the gunslinger.
4 Amateur Gunslinger, choosing Quick clear as the deed. No need for Wis, you still get 1 grit. Single shot +11, now gets 6 shots using a 3rd double-barrelled pistol all at +3, doing 6x 1d8+6. Still better than gunslinger.
5 Deadly Aim; Weapon Training 1 (Firearms). Single shot +13; deadly aim now applies to 6 shots at +3, doing 6x 1d8+10. Same damage as gunslinger, but has an extra +1 to hit.
6 Improved TWF. Single shot +14, iterative +9. 6 shots +4, 4 shots –1; 10x 1d8+10. Much better than gunslinger.
7 Choose a feat: from previous list, or Power Attack or other. Single shot +15, iterative +10. Still better than gunslinger, having weapon training, and one extra feat.
8 (Dex boost applied.) Another spare feat.
9 Another spare feat; weapon training 2 (melee, eg light blades – you still have TWF). Single shot +19, iterative +14.
10 Yet another spare feat.
Overall, a clear victory for the Trench Fighter - if it is allowed. Who also has better AC from armour, higher strength and spare feats for switch hitting, along with its +2 to hit. Damage output is identical, but less likely to miss.
The only advantage the gunslinger has is the deeds. However, if there are any you particularly want to have, then you could buy them (and more grit) with the spare feats. The only thing not available is the L13 pistolero’s never misfiring ability.
Alright, well thanks for the ideas guys! I'm thinking I'm liking the Trench Fighter concept the best, most reliable of all of them, and gives the needed room for switch-hitting since the guns, whilst powerful, aren't going to be reliable enough to assume that's all I'll need. But all in all, a fun little exercise if I do say so myself.
Yes, for some reason I had assumed that the gunslinger would be the best with guns...
The extra feats and weapon training are better than the deeds, generally, and it counters one of the gunslinger's biggest weaknesses - their relatively poor AC.
If you want to use muskets instead, then the musket master is the only way to get free action reloads.