Knowledge checks DC?

[chaoskin]

core book wrote:

Check: Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions).
You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster’s CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster’s CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. Many of the Knowledge skills have specific uses as noted on Table 4–6.

iron cobra CR 4 Construct

my question can some one clear this up?

your field of study is that the some as check equals 10 + the monster’s CR

how rare is a iron cobra DC 17 or 12

the rare monsters can you list the off like undead ect

is the rarety base on the time ppl have seen them or the area that you in or flat number or is it what i want it to be base off the game im playing

i ask this there a pathfinder (LT for pathfinder Society) that say all
monster’s have a DC 10 + CR i need to know how rare is rare

thx
chaoskin
P.S. sorry about this he starting to pass me off thats why im asking

[anthonydido]

I don't consider anything in the Bestiaries as rare. Rare monsters, to me, are ones specifically made for a scenario/mod/AP or are otherwise not covered by the bestiaries.

Paizo doesn't really define what a rare monster is though so it is all up to the GM to determine that.

[Brf]

"Field of study" is referring to answering questions about something.
The 10+CR is for identifying a creature, which is unrelated to answering questions.

If you walked into a room and there is an iron cobra there, you should be able to identify it as such with a 10+2=12 DC Knowledge Arcana check.

An Iron Cobra is a pretty simple construct, so it is probably not too rare, depending on the campaign you are in.

[anthonydido]

Knowledge wrote:

You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. Many of the Knowledge skills have specific uses as noted on Table: Knowledge Skill DCs.

This is all about identifying creatures, not answering questions about them. It even gives an example of a rare creature. It happens to be in the bestiary but is a cr 25 monster too, so yeah, it's probably quite rare.

[thejeff]

Brf wrote:

"Field of study" is referring to answering questions about something.

The 10+CR is for identifying a creature, which is unrelated to answering questions.

If you walked into a room and there is an iron cobra there, you should be able to identify it as such with a 10+2=12 DC Knowledge Arcana check.

An Iron Cobra is a pretty simple construct, so it is probably not too rare, depending on the campaign you are in.

"Field of study" is just which branch of Knowledge you use. It applies equally to answering questions and identifying creatures.

In your example "field of study" would be "Arcana".

[Nefreet]

The DC to identify a CR 4 critter is normally 14, or 9 if it's common, or 19 if it's rare/unique.

Determining the rarity is the sole purview of the GM, even in PFS.

[Rynjin]

For future reference, a single question mark will suffice.

[Brf]

thejeff wrote:

Brf wrote:

"Field of study" is referring to answering questions about something.

"Field of study" is just which branch of Knowledge you use. It applies equally to answering questions and identifying creatures.

In your example "field of study" would be "Arcana".

The OP was quoting the first line of "Check", which is referring to answering questions, not identifying:

chaoskin wrote:

your field of study is that the some as check equals 10 + the monster’s CR

Nefreet wrote:

The DC to identify a CR 4 critter is normally 14, or 9 if it's common, or 19 if it's rare/unique.

An Iron Cobra is CR 2.

[Jiggy]

What's the DC to know how many question marks should be at the end of a sentence?

[anthonydido]

I thought it was pretty obvious was the OPs question was. He was using the iron cobra as an example. He wanted to know what determines whether a creature is rare...that's it.

[chaoskin]

sorry iron cobra is CR2 i add HD to make it CR4

has any one did a Knowledge SC monster list?

[anthonydido]

chaoskin wrote:

sorry iron cobra is CR2 i add HD to make it CR4

has any one did a Knowledge SC monster list?

I don't understand the question. What is "SC"?

[Nefreet]

chaoskin wrote:

sorry iron cobra is CR2 i add HD to make it CR4

If you augmented a CR 2 monster into a CR 4, I might rule that it'd be a DC 19, since variants are more rare than the base creature.

[Nefreet]

chaoskin wrote:

has any one did a Knowledge SC monster list?

No, because as was said earlier, the DC will vary by GM.

[chaoskin]

it DC not SC

[Smallberries]

I think the rule is as floppy as it is because what counts as "rare" depends on the campaign you're running. For example, if you're running a Dark Sun campaign, water elementals would be rare, while other elementals would not.

It's up to the GM to decide whether a creature is rare or not, based on the nature of his campaign and the environment he's running in.

I actually find this to be a little bit of a weird rule, in the sense that some exotic creatures have stories written about them, so people ought to know about them, so the knowledge DC should maybe be lower, or just common knowledge that needs no roll. That is, it shouldn't take a high DC knowledge check to know that red dragons breathe fire, because as a kid you heard stories around the campfire about the fire-breathing red dragon that laid waste to the town back in the day. You did not hear any stories about armadillos being carriers of leprosy (true). So in some circumstances, you should know more about the exotic creature than the mundane one.

On the other hand, if you did hear about armadillos being carriers of leprosy, you probably also heard that bats are carriers of rabies (false). So the low-level knowledge you get just by living in the world is kind of a wash, I guess.

But I do think that the rules for monster knowledge checks are heavy-handed, un-nuanced, and not well planned. All that means is that it's open season for the GM - he has to choose what information to give out, and the roll rules are just a guideline for how much to provide.

In this case, (knowing nothing about it, but there you go) I would probably treat this as a rare creature and use the higher DC. It's a construct, created by at least a 7th level caster. How many 7th level casters are around, and how many choose to create one of these? Probably not many. How many times have the PCs or anyone they know run into one? Probably never. Regardless of campaign setting, this is a type of creature the characters would probably heard of before. I'd count this as a rare creature, and use the higher DC.

[Smallberries]

Edit on my above post ('cause I can't find a way to actually edit it), the second-to-last sentence should read, "...would probably not have heard of before." Sheesh :)

[HarbinNick]

rabid bats aren't real?
Rabies in humans is rare in the United States. There are usually only one or two human cases per year. But the most common source of human rabies in the United States is from bats. For example, among the 19 naturally acquired cases of rabies in humans in the United States from 1997-2006, 17 were associated with bats. Among these, 14 patients had known encounters with bats. Four people awoke because a bat landed on them and one person awoke because a bat bit him. In these cases, the bat was inside the home.
-CDC.GOV

[chaoskin]

Nefreet wrote:

No, because as was said earlier, the DC will vary by GM.

ok but is here any guidelines i can follow or is it up to me

[Nefreet]

The guidelines are presented in the skill itself.

DC 5 + CR for common creatures. Most GMs would consider Goblins, Skeletons, Wolves, etc. to be "common".

DC 15 + CR for rare/unique creatures. Most GMs would consider a Tarrasque or a Balor to be "unique" or "rare".

DC 10 + CR for everything else. Shadow? Harpy? Dragon? Anything not common or unique fits into this category.

If you're the GM, it's up to you. Only you know what would be considered common or rare. If you're having trouble figuring this out, just set the general DC to 10 + CR for everything and be done with it.

[Draco Bahamut]

My question is, what is "a bit of useful information", and who decides that ?

So the DC to remember the Iron Cobra is 14, and the player roll 19. He gets two "bits of information". What should i tell ? The most useful bit ? A random bit ? The player can ask one question bit ? The least relevant bit ? And if the player roll 39, he gets five bits of useful information, there is so much information about an Iron Cobra ?

[anthonydido]

Draco Bahamut wrote:

My question is, what is "a bit of useful information", and who decides that ?

So the DC to remember the Iron Cobra is 14, and the player roll 19. He gets two "bits of information". What should i tell ? The most useful bit ? A random bit ? The player can ask one question bit ? The least relevant bit ? And if the player roll 39, he gets five bits of useful information, there is so much information about an Iron Cobra ?

There are a couple of ways to do this.

The most common way that I know is the player gets one question for hitting the DC and one more question for every 5 over the DC. So, the player may ask what the DR is or maybe if it has any special attacks (in which they would get one that the GM picks if they have a few) or maybe resistances...you get the idea.

The other which I've seen is that the GM just picks the most common bits of information to give the player. I don't like this because I feel that different characters may have studied different aspects of monsters. For example, a blaster probably would have studied which creatures were resistant or immune to his spells. A martial may have studied DRs.

[Nefreet]

This again is really up to the GM.

The system I see a lot in PFS is that the player can ask a question if they meet the DC, and an extra question for every 5 they beat the DC by.

That way determining what's "useful" is in the hands of the player.

But, not everyone handles it that way.

I tend to be liberal in giving out information. If someone has focused on maxing out their Knowledges, I want to reward them for that. Meeting the DC at my table gets the creature's name, type, subtypes, and any information about those subtypes.

Beyond that I'll let you ask:

Special attacks
Special abilities
Special defenses (except DR)
Damage Reduction
Vulnerabilities
Best/Worst save
Movement speeds/modes
Spell resistance
and I'm sure I'm missing one or two others.

If the creature only has a handful of abilities and you killed the DC, I'll read off everything special.

But I never give out numbers, like AC, HP, DR 5, that sort of thing.

YMMV