Goblin Squad Member
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But there WILL be some stuff that is hard to acquire for done reason or other, and I'm willing to bet that there will at some point be an opportunistic gang waiting along the return path from that stuff to try to get some the "easy" way.
Good reason why not to take the easy straight path hope. Go the round-about way and do variously different ways each trip.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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But there WILL be some stuff that is hard to acquire for done reason or other, and I'm willing to bet that there will at some point be an opportunistic gang waiting along the return path from that stuff to try to get some the "easy" way.Good reason why not to take the easy straight path hope. Go the round-about way and do variously different ways each trip.
And the effective bandits will be waiting along the circuitous route you take, and won't waste time on the ambush spots you avoid. #infiniterecursion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Ryan is saying fairly clearly that I shouldn't get my hopes up. He can't say what FFA PvP zones will have, but I'm taking it as a clear statement that they might have exotic resources that aren't available elsewhere (except on the market).
Yes, it seems that some or all of tier 3 resources may be gated by low sec locations. Which simply begs for a caravan/pvp update vlog. Someone else should ask on the relevant thread; I don't think GW wants to repeat questioners. Perhaps Nihimon or Bluddwolf. I don't think bozos realize what a revelation that is if true- The possibility of Tier 3 resources gated by FFA pvp hexes. Quite a different game than some are expecting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There has been no discussion as a group about the idea of Hexes without Reputation and Alignment effects, if that is what you mean by "free for all".
That is what we mean :)
The overall impression I have right now is that FFA (consequence-free / every is flagged to everyone) PvP zones might be in the game, and they might have resources that can't be found elsewhere, but they aren't a major part of the design vision and probably won't show up until we've had a chance to heavily influence them via Crowdforging.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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There has been no discussion as a group about the idea of Hexes without Reputation and Alignment effects, if that is what you mean by "free for all".That is what we mean :)
The overall impression I have right now is that FFA (consequence-free / every is flagged to everyone) PvP zones might be in the game, and they might have resources that can't be found elsewhere, but they aren't a major part of the design vision and probably won't show up until we've had a chance to heavily influence them via Crowdforging.
The implication I read in the stateless statement was that top-tier resources would be gated behind the most difficult PvE content. Very few people would attempt to complete the hardest escalation bosses, while very many people would take harvesting kits into zones that were FFA PvP. (At the very least, it would never be the case that nobody tried to harvest in such zones because of the number of bandits...)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The implication I read in the stateless statement was that top-tier resources would be gated behind the most difficult PvE content. Very few people would attempt to complete the hardest escalation bosses, while very many people would take harvesting kits into zones that were FFA PvP. (At the very least, it would never be the case that nobody tried to harvest in such zones because of the number of bandits...)
Can you try restating this is a less convoluted way? Your posts often lose their value when they have to be read 5 times, and they still can be taken 20 different ways.
@ Ryan,
I find it hard to believe you would be uncertain of what our interpretation of FFA meant. It is a pretty standardized definition in MMO circles.
Usually FFA is also combined with Full Loot, which is generally considered "Hard Core PvP Rules" (EvE Online Null Sec for example). Then you can also have FFA + FL + Permanent Death for a "Nightmare Mode". I am however unaware of any MMOs with that rule set, or server type.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Ryan,
I find it hard to believe you would be uncertain of what our interpretation of FFA meant.
It's a fairly standard - and admirable - practice in communication to repeat what you understand to ensure clarity. It's a mistake to treat such clarifications as if they were signs of ignorance.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The implication I read in the stateless statement was that top-tier resources would be gated behind the most difficult PvE content. Very few people would attempt to complete the hardest escalation bosses, while very many people would take harvesting kits into zones that were FFA PvP. (At the very least, it would never be the case that nobody tried to harvest in such zones because of the number of bandits...)Can you try restating this is a less convoluted way? Your posts often lose their value when they have to be read 5 times, and they still can be taken 20 different ways.
@ Ryan,
I find it hard to believe you would be uncertain of what our interpretation of FFA meant. It is a pretty standardized definition in MMO circles.
Usually FFA is also combined with Full Loot, which is generally considered "Hard Core PvP Rules" (EvE Online Null Sec for example). Then you can also have FFA + FL + Permanent Death for a "Nightmare Mode". I am however unaware of any MMOs with that rule set, or server type.
What are three ways you could take the post that prompted this, without being uncharitable?
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Goblin Squad Member
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What are three ways you could take the post that prompted this, without being uncharitable?
The implication I read in the stateless statement was that top-tier resources would be gated behind the most difficult PvE content. Very few people would attempt to complete the hardest escalation bosses, while very many people would take harvesting kits into zones that were FFA PvP. (At the very least, it would never be the case that nobody tried to harvest in such zones because of the number of bandits...)Can you try restating this is a less convoluted way? Your posts often lose their value when they have to be read 5 times, and they still can be taken 20 different ways.
@ Ryan,
I find it hard to believe you would be uncertain of what our interpretation of FFA meant. It is a pretty standardized definition in MMO circles.
Usually FFA is also combined with Full Loot, which is generally considered "Hard Core PvP Rules" (EvE Online Null Sec for example). Then you can also have FFA + FL + Permanent Death for a "Nightmare Mode". I am however unaware of any MMOs with that rule set, or server type.
One way you could take this post is that Mr. Dancey was referring to raid-level pve content as the guardian mechanism for high grade resources, not more difficult pvp. Another way is that the prisoner in your basement got loose and posted...wait, were you talking to me?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@DeciusBrutus: #1: You assumed top-tier resources would be in difficult PvE contrent, because only a few people (equal to top-tier raid groups or large-fleet leadership) would succeed at completing the hardest escalation bosses (like dragons and liches). Significantly more people would be able to attempt to harvest in fixed 'rich' zones, even if they were 'free-for-all'.
#2, #3. I've got nothing.
As an aside - tying top-tier resources to (some) escalation bosses might also make certain resources gathered sporadically, making them harder to get, and raising the value in player markets. This in turn would make it more likely that 'sanctioned' PvP is brought to bear during escalations. It might make some resources worth going to war over.
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, I don't see how the point of highly gate PvE content was even brought up.
Secondly, escalation zones will be fairly common, and has never been part of the discussion of FFA hexes.
Reading stateless statement is like saying "writing a whole lot of nothing", so how could you draw any kind of an impression from that?
A fairly common and admirable practice of communication is to "say what you mean, and mean what you say."
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Goblin Squad Member
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My expectation has always been that tier 3 items will require resources only available in Monster hexes. And at most, a monster hex will only drop one type during any time frame (but may drop an other next week). Not all monster hexes will have tier 3 resources. Such resources would be harvested, not normally dropped as loot -- but some high monsters may drop single amounts of resource that could currently be harvested (consider tuna with mercury content).
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, I don't see how the point of highly gate PvE content was even brought up.
Secondly, escalation zones will be fairly common, and has never been part of the discussion of FFA hexes.
Reading stateless statement is like saying "writing a whole lot of nothing", so how could you draw any kind of an impression from that?
A fairly common and admirable practice of communication is to "say what you mean, and mean what you say."
I think Decius was taking to mean the 'dangers of those locations' as pve content of raid-level strength, not FFA pvp, as the limiting factor on who might want to harvest high-level resources. So, two different gates. A legitimate point in my view. An escalation introducing a FFA gate was an idea of Nihimons and introduced that way.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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Other than the reward for completing an Escalation there are no current plans for "PvE" gated content. There are no raids or similar constructs in the current design.
The most dangerous opponents will be other player characters, not monsters.
The most dangerous player characters will be in the hexes where those characters face no NPC law enforcement, and where the interior lines of communication with nearby Settlements will be most lengthy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The most dangerous player characters will be in the hexes where those characters face no NPC law enforcement, and where the interior lines of communication with nearby Settlements will be most lengthy.
Eh, Moster Hexes will not be adjacent to settlement hexes. I suspect "most lengthly" line to settlement.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Other than the reward for completing an Escalation there are no current plans for "PvE" gated content. There are no raids or similar constructs in the current design.
The most dangerous opponents will be other player characters, not monsters.
The most dangerous player characters will be in the hexes where those characters face no NPC law enforcement, and where the interior lines of communication with nearby Settlements will be most lengthy.
How are "raids or similar content" different from the Dungeons and Ruins that are expected to require many groups and an extended period of exploration?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@DB, since a monster hex escalation isn't instanced, I'd expect that a lot of the content/randomness of an escalation would be in the various PCs vying for the drops. A PvE escalation might have a lot of PvP along the way.
edit to add: a single monster hex might border 2-4 settlements' POI hexes. Even if one's neighbors aren't involved in the monster hex itself, the action in the infected hexes sounds like it will affect the state of the escalation as a whole. We won't necessarily be able to predict where the escalation state will go and how fast just from our own actions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd suggest even if we implement a "FFA" hex not to mention it until well within the EE/OE period.
Dropping that in now saying it is a possibility basically counteracts all ryan and the devs have been fighting for with the press to say. It has been made extremely clear by Ryan that there will be no consequence free pvp anytime in the near future. Saying anything about implementing it, even vaguely, even planned for a zillion years into the future, would seriously countermand the foundation that has been built up.
People would see it and think "oh another company going back on their word, same old same old. Whatever, going to look elsewhere" or along the lines of "how can they have ffa and controlled in the same game? that is stupid /abandon thread."
Just wanting to throw that out there.