Prone and CMD


Rules Questions


When prone you suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls.

Does that effect your CMD? Why?

Thanks in advance.

Sczarni

CMD is composed of Dex/Str/Dodge/Deflect/BAB.

When Prone, you take a -4 Dodge bonus I believe. Because of the minus in Dodge, it takes away from your CMD. Much like a minus in your Str would take away from a normal Attack value. It makes sense to me, as you're laying on the ground(or just floating in the wrong position if flying or in water) and you can't be quite as evasive. Don't forget Dodge bonuses stack, negative or not ;P
Prone also, on top of that, gives you a -4 to attack for Melee. I don't recall how using Ranged from a Prone position effects your Attack value.

Prone

Edit: I may be incorrect, that may be an Untyped bonus, rather than a Dodge bonus.

Edit15: Uhh. I don't recall if Untyped still applies to your CMD or not. I know when filling out my character sheet my Untyped Monk AC Bonus applies to AC and CMD... but I don't know how accurately that would apply in a Prone situation.


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Any penalties to your ac are applied to cmd.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

These are the relevant passages in the srd:

Prone

"The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks."

Performing a Combat Maneuver

"When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll."

Combat Maneuver Defense > Miscellaneous Modifiers

"A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD."

Technically speaking, I think a combat maneuver is not a melee attack, it's an action you can take in place of a melee attack. But I'd wager the intent here is that you do take the penalty on your CMD. It's slightly ambiguous.

Sczarni

I appreciate that level of detail this early in the morning Serpent! I think I need to stay away from the rules section this early...


So a penalty to your AC applies to CMD vs melee attacks.

Manoeuvres are melee attacks.

Grand Lodge

Serpent wrote:

Combat Maneuver Defense > Miscellaneous Modifiers

"A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD."

Actually, Serpent's quote includes the relevant rules material, bolded for visibility.

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