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Frankly, if a DM and/or group is so obsessed with the perfectly uninterrupted flow of their game that they're willing to deny people basic ablutions or necessary interruptions, they're not the type with which it's worth playing.
"Basic ablutions and necessary interruptions", yes, by all means.
Having a cigarette is neither basic nor necessary, however.
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I imagine innumerable smokers would disagree.Frankly, if a DM and/or group is so obsessed with the perfectly uninterrupted flow of their game that they're willing to deny people basic ablutions or necessary interruptions, they're not the type with which it's worth playing."Basic ablutions and necessary interruptions", yes, by all means.
Having a cigarette is neither basic nor necessary, however.
They can feel free to disagree, but it doesn't make them correct.
The talk of disruption does bring up another point I'm picky about I guess. If players or a GM can't understand that I have to get up and walk every hour or so, I'm more likely than not to either not let them in the group, or not join the game. I love role playing, but I'm not willing to sit through easily preventable physical pain for the sake of it.
Oh, no problems with that one. I often get up and walk around to stretch my legs, and if I'm doing a lengthy bit of RP I'll often walk around the room a bit while talking (which doesn't mean not taking a real break at all, just that it sometimes makes it easier on me mid-game)
By itself, especially for preventing physical discomfort, that's a good reason to take a break. With a smoker though, it's one of many other reasons I'd not want one in my game - even if I tolerate the break, they're still going to drag the smell back in with them afterwards.
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I don't understand the whole no smokers thing.It's a time thing. If a smoker is comfortable lighting up every 2 hours or so that's fine with me, but many smokers insist on a 'smoke break' every hour or even less than that, which can disrupt the flow of a game.
I'd run into the same issue with someone with a tremendously weak bladder and without the will to control his fluid intake during a game, although fortunately I haven't encountered someone like that yet.
Once an hour?! Goddamn. I wouldn't put up with that either.
That said, something like half my gaming group smokes...but none of them that often. We usually game around five hours with one smoke break, maybe two if we go long. And they're rarely more than about 10-15 minutes long.
That's not a ban on smokers, that's a ban on people who can't game for more than an hour at a time.
The talk of disruption does bring up another point I'm picky about I guess. If players or a GM can't understand that I have to get up and walk every hour or so, I'm more likely than not to either not let them in the group, or not join the game. I love role playing, but I'm not willing to sit through easily preventable physical pain for the sake of it.
Oh, no problems with that one. I often get up and walk around to stretch my legs, and if I'm doing a lengthy bit of RP I'll often walk around the room a bit while talking (which doesn't mean not taking a real break at all, just that it sometimes makes it easier on me mid-game)
By itself, especially for preventing physical discomfort, that's a good reason to take a break. With a smoker though, it's one of many other reasons I'd not want one in my game - even if I tolerate the break, they're still going to drag the smell back in with them afterwards.
Aye, it can be a real problem for me, since some people just don't seem to get it. One of the few cases of me walking out on a game was actually due to a GM who didn't understand that it's a neurological problem, yelled at me for disrupting the game by needing to stretch and walk, and then called me a liar when I tried to explain the situation.
As for the smokers. Well, fair enough. As a GM, it's always your call who to play with (unless it's society play of course), and the situation is of course unique to each group. I imagine that if these guys were insisting on a break every hour, and smelling up my apartment, then yes, I'd seriously consider dropping them. But given that they're chill to just wait until the rest of us take a break, and take steps to try and avoid bringing the smell back in with them as much as possible, I give them a pass. Part of it may also be that I used to occasionally smoke cigars, and my complaining about the smell of cigarettes when I used to smoke those foul things would be a bit of a joke :P
Being a former smoker myself (well, a for 3 weeks now anyways...we'll see if it sticks), I will say that needing a smoke every hour is ridiculous. Every couple of hours, no big deal, as someone will almost always need to go to the bathroom at that point anyways.
As for those who say "no smokers because they stink", isn't that a bit petty? It sounds like something kids on a playground would say: " we don't wanna play with you because you stink."
Rynjin, I understand your reasoning with having a smoke allergy, and find it perfectly valid and reasonable.
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I'm weirdly picky when GMing. I've found it very rare for experienced players to match playstyles, so it's easier and more successful for us to introduce brand new players to gaming.
If an experienced player gets brought in, it's usually the result of knowing them for quite a while and finding out our styles coincide.
Actually getting included in the game after being let into the broader group is mostly just a matter of being able to show up consistently.
For smokers, I've known people who can smoke without disrupting the game or making everything around them smell like smoke. But, if they can't, they're going to be treated like any other guest that's disruptive or repeatedly damages my house.
Being a former smoker myself (well, a for 3 weeks now anyways...we'll see if it sticks)
Keep up the good work!
Cheers!
Landon
As for those who say "no smokers because they stink", isn't that a bit petty? It sounds like something kids on a playground would say: " we don't wanna play with you because you stink."
It's no more petty than not wanting to game with someone because of their poor hygiene. I used to play with a fair amount of smokers (now I game with none)and I can tell you that yes the smell of cigarette smoke stays in someones clothes and their pores. So when you're sitting next to them depending on the person you CAN smell it.
I don't like the smell of cigarettes or cigarette smoke and don't spend a lot of time around people who smoke for a reason. It's not an indictment of the people who smoke it's the habit. Now if that's petty, then I guess it's petty. But I'm pretty sure I can point out plenty of things that are pettier in nerdworld in general and on this board in particular.
We very, very seldom have new people join our group, which has been together for over 25 years. Most of the guys are pretty clannish, and outsiders just aren't made to feel welcome. I've tried over the years to bring in a new player or two, but met with very limited success. They usually don't last but a session or three.
Sad, that.
I can relate to that. Our "newbie" player has joined our group more than ten years ago.
There is little fluctuation.
You're hard presed to find some less fond of smoking than I am (my mother and sister beat me, but that's it as far as I know), but I'm not going to be a jerk about people smoking duing game time, whether I run the game or play in it. Sure, we kick smokers outside to poison their lungs and the outside air rather than foul up the apartment, but it's not something I'm going to get bent out of shape over so long as they don't smoke more than every other hour. Taking a 5 minute cig break every hour is too much. Every 2 hours? no biggie.They can feel free to disagree, but it doesn't make them correct.I imagine innumerable smokers would disagree.Frankly, if a DM and/or group is so obsessed with the perfectly uninterrupted flow of their game that they're willing to deny people basic ablutions or necessary interruptions, they're not the type with which it's worth playing."Basic ablutions and necessary interruptions", yes, by all means.
Having a cigarette is neither basic nor necessary, however.
I despise the habit but I can recognize the fact that once you start, there is a physiological need to continue. An argument can be made that, if you DON'T give them a smoke break once every couple hours, they will be jittery and less focused (varying on their dependency), which might slow the game down more.
It's not our job to constantly police smokers and push quitting on them every waking moment.
These make less sense to me. I've been playing with these guys for years, and never noticed a smell of smoke clinging to my furniture. Right after they have a cigarette, yes I can smell tobacco, but it fades within 15 minutes. They don't reek, or smell in general. In fact the only time my place has ever reeked of smoke was when I first moved in, and the guy there before me was a chain smoker who ignored the no smoking indoors clause in the lease.
No, it's just super easy to become acclimated to the reek. Just the amount of smokers you seem to be normally around has likely de-sensitized you to the smell.
No, it's just super easy to become acclimated to the reek. Just the amount of smokers you seem to be normally around has likely de-sensitized you to the smell.
These make less sense to me. I've been playing with these guys for years, and never noticed a smell of smoke clinging to my furniture. Right after they have a cigarette, yes I can smell tobacco, but it fades within 15 minutes. They don't reek, or smell in general. In fact the only time my place has ever reeked of smoke was when I first moved in, and the guy there before me was a chain smoker who ignored the no smoking indoors clause in the lease.
What, all 2 of them? On a fortnightly basis? Oh yeah, I'm surrounded by the smell of smoke all the time, clearly I'm desensitized...
Believe me, if someone does 'reek' of smoke, I notice. These guys don't.
Steam clean your furniture and carpet (and walls, and ceilings...), get back to me next time they come over.
Betcha you'll smell it then.
It only takes a little bit to completely infuse your house with the smell. You smell it every day, you become acclimated.
I don't mind people who smoke per se, I just don't want them to smoke NEAR ME, is all I'm saying. I'm not going to deny somebody entry to the game just because they're a smoker, but I will ask that they refrain from doing so for the 4 or so hours we're playing.
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This boils down to tolerance, but not intolerance. We all have that which beyond we shall not or cannot, practicably, go.
Rynjin and others who cannot abide the odor of smoke, and don't want it pervading or even invading their homes, aren't looking to ostracize anyone, insofar as I can tell ... but it's unreasonable to expect them to "suck it up," pun intended, simply because someone's developed a habit many find not only objectionable, but nauseating and detrimental both to health and sense of well-being, on many levels.
I agree entirely. I'm not saying they should have to suck it up and let people smoke at their games, I was just saying that I didn't understand the rule at first when it was just described as "no smokers". Once I knew about the allergy etc., it makes far more sense.
But by the same token, telling me that no, my friends must reek of smoke and I'm just getting used to it and not noticing anymore isn't really cool either. As I've said before, these guys take steps to be courteous about it and avoid smelling of smoke as much as possible. Sure, there's a bit of a smell just after they have a cigarette, but my apartment most certainly does not smell of smoke (I have friends who never spend any time around smokers, they come over and say nothing, and believe me, if they could smell the slightest hint of smoke, they'd let me know about it, at great and irritating length).
I don't mind people who smoke per se, I just don't want them to smoke NEAR ME, is all I'm saying. I'm not going to deny somebody entry to the game just because they're a smoker, but I will ask that they refrain from doing so for the 4 or so hours we're playing.
This makes even more sense now. Just saying "No smokers" makes it seem like you're saying you'll exclude anyone who dares partake in the habit, rather than the more reasonable attitude of "You can come along, but don't smoke while you're here". The guys in my group would find that perfectly acceptable and refrain from smoking for the duration of the session, they'd do the same if I asked them to, I just don't feel the need to personally.
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Being a former smoker myself (well, a for 3 weeks now anyways...we'll see if it sticks), I will say that needing a smoke every hour is ridiculous. Every couple of hours, no big deal, as someone will almost always need to go to the bathroom at that point anyways.
As for those who say "no smokers because they stink", isn't that a bit petty? It sounds like something kids on a playground would say: " we don't wanna play with you because you stink."
Rynjin, I understand your reasoning with having a smoke allergy, and find it perfectly valid and reasonable.
It's not petty. It's the same reason that personal hygiene is mandatory at our table. I will not sit, for hours, with someone who stinks. It is unpleasant.
Also, I have a very acute sense of smell. I can smell minute traces of tobacco smoke. On clothes, on hair.
One of the worst things, that bother me to no end is when I am using public transport, and someone who was just smoking on the stop comes in and sits close to me. I spend the rest of the ride gagging.
My Ex was a smoker, and she quit because of me. But sometimes, she would light up with her friends.
I knew every time she did. Even if it was hours after, and she's had a pack of eucalyptus flavored gum.
With the exception of a few games involving my wife's coworkers, our gaming has pretty much been exclusively through our expanded network of friends, classmates, coworkers, etc. New players who come into the group are all given a fair chance, but if they screw up, they don't get invited back.
Funny story; after our initial group started up when D&D 3e was released, we wound up discovering that several of our high school classmates, whom many of us hadn't seen in years, were into D&D as well. Our group became a network of around 5 or so gaming groups all interconnected. During 3.5's heyday, we had a huge roster of potential players, and several games with more than 7 players at a time. The numbers have dwindled a bit over the years, but we still have a fairly large group of available players.
Personally, if I'm running an anything goes/kitchen sink sort of game, everyone's invited. If I'm running a specialty game, such as a horror-themed setting, Star Wars, etc, then I get a little choosier with who I invite.
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GMs, how carefully do you screen players joining your group? Is there a pre-game interview? Are they on probation for a time after acceptance? Will you excise someone who's otherwise a great player and good person, but has a personality conflict with you or a long-standing player? Have you expelled someone from your game? If so, why?
Players, do you join any game with the idea that "it could be fun," or are you choosier, looking instead for a group and play style that meshes well with your own, and people that you like outside of the gaming environment? Do you pack it in for minor reasons, or would it take an act of God (or the DM) to get you out once you're in?
I only play with long-time, close friends.
"Guys night out", so to speak.
(So this would fall under picky to the extreme.)
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Smokers stink.I don't understand the whole no smokers thing. I mean I don't smoke (I rarely used to, but haven't at all for a few years now), nor do most of my friends, but a few of the guys do and it honestly has no bearing whatsoever on their ability to join in on the gaming groups. Hell, they're some of my favourite people to play with.
It's not like they're lighting up in the house or anything, we just take a break every now and then for them to wander outside for a smoke, and I go with them for conversation and to stretch my legs...
I'm the only non-smoker in my group. So, no smoke breaks. They just smoke at the game table. Which, since it's at their house, is completely their right, and I don't say anything. I've been around smoking most of my life, so I just ignore it.
