Marble mining in fantasy setting


Rules Questions


Greets folks,

Need some advice:

As probably you all know marble is mined in quarries as opposed to a mine in the traditional sense. The tool that they have used in the fairly recent past and use today are diamond bladed saws (diamond wire saws as well, but I'm concentrating on the former).

Here is the dilemma. The blade of a diamond bladed saw in which diamonds are inserted into the actual cutting edge, you could chalk up to Dwarven Metalsmithing. However, given that the blade needs to move at a higher speed than possible by using simple human brute force, a method of locomotion would be required.

There is possibly steam power, but I'd rather not have to go there. Ergo, how would you create that locomotion magically? What spells would be required?

Keep in mind this is a process that has to last a long long time so it is probable that Permanency will be in there somewhere.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

OH


You'd have better luck using an adamantine saw blade since it would ignore the marble's hardness entirely without the need for high-speed movement. Barring that, spells that directly manipulate the stone, such as fabricate, come to mind.

As for a permanent solution, a custom-crafted magic item might be more in keeping with the concept than a spell with permanency. The latter has pretty specific restrictions and is quite expensive. A custom item, statted appropriately, would likely not be that expensive--certainly cheaper than, say, a lyre of building.


Adamantine Blades is a good idea, but I'd rather there be craftsmanship involved. I don't want "Poof, here's your statue."


One thing i would avoid is applying "I have a modern understanding somewhat of industrial practices" to a fantasy game.

PF and its predecessors have wholly avoided anything related to the practical application of magic to every day life. This seems deliberate although im not really sure the reason for it, although it is possibly better than the reverse used by games like rolemaster which had spell lists for child birth.

My guess is that Adamantium can be used to accomplish anything that Diamunds are used for industrially in rl. However there is probably not enough of it to fulfill industrial roles.

I would just suggest, The Marbl quary use a Modified version of soften earth and stone or stone shape.

soften earth and stone if it had the ability to be shaped would let you extract marble probably far fastern than any modern industrial process.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am not sure that I understand as they have been using marble since ancient times.

How did they mine it then before the industrial revolution?

That would be your answer. I am not an expert but I do know that there are 3000 to 4000 year old marble items still in museums and such.


How was marble mined historically?

If the ancient Romans and Greeks were able to mine marble in mass quantities, obviously high-speed motors and diamond-bladed saws weren't necessary. What they used, IIRC, is wooden wedges that were then soaked in water to expand, breaking off blocks.

If you've got magic to help you, stone shape was basically made for this purpose.


Ornery Hobbit wrote:

Adamantine Blades is a good idea, but I'd rather there be craftsmanship involved. I don't want "Poof, here's your statue."

Adamantine just cuts through the stuff. It still requires labor and some skill to cut the slabs, and making the statue would require every bit as much Craft skill as it would using classical tools. It'd just be faster.

Magic is going to lean toward "poof, here's your statue", though even good transmutation solutions such as fabricate still require the Craft check for the resulting product to actually be well-crafted. Otherwise, you end up with an ugly lump of marble or David with his arms sticking out of his sides. Stone shape would be good enough to get the slabs at least but would be of no help in making a high quality item once the materials are extracted.


Hendelbolaf wrote:

I am not sure that I understand as they have been using marble since ancient times.

How did they mine it then before the industrial revolution?

That would be your answer. I am not an expert but I do know that there are 3000 to 4000 year old marble items still in museums and such.

The OP seemed focused on trying to do modern industral mining. Thus the diamond laced saws and the need to move the saws faster than manpower can provide.

Marbles been one of the most heavily used constructive materials for anything important for thousands of years.


Adamantine seems to be 'too easy' a solution, plus it is extremely rare. What about mithril blades?

Would Animate Object work in regards to hooking the blade up to a gear and animating the gear so it turns and therefore makes the blade saw in and out?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ancient marble quarrying techniques.


Yep, read the wikipedia article on that as well Shadowborn. I'm just guessing that casting Animate Object/Permanency on say 2 or even 4 saws will be in the long run cheaper than repeated castings of Stone Shape.

The economic factor plays in here as well as the marble quarries/sculpting are the main source of income for this town.

The question is would Animate Object work in this way? Or if not, is there an alternative in the same line of thought (Something that makes a tool do it's job as opposed to simply replacing the tool)?

Grand Lodge

I suspect lots of brute force pre industrial labor is actually cheaper than either.


True, but I'm hoping to land somewhere in the middle here. Past Brute Force and Ignorance but without bringing too much magic into it.

Just been doing some calculations and at best there would be 1 Cleric capable of Permanency/Animate Object and perhaps up to 2 others able to cast Stone Shape in the entire settlement. And they are the Senior Management of the local Seminary, so not folks who would be spending their time in a marble quarry.


If you follow the standard ratio of characer levels distributed in most game worlds, it is unlikely that a town with a single economic source is likely going to have the people who can repeatedly cast animate object etc.

That said, 1 stone shape cast to target specific locations in a quary to create cracks followed by wholly mundane labour would probly speed the quarrying process up considerably.


Well, they would be casting Animate Object twice or at most four times as opposed to the mass castings of Stone Shape. That said, your targeted Stone Shape idea gives one pause for thought. It definitely would lower the level of 'Poof' in the process.


In the documentaries I have watched about making the pyramids the slabs were mined using hammer and chisel and then fractured thermally to separate them from the final face. That being said a lot of modern mining can also be done with explosives, would there not be a magical way of reproducing these explosions? If all else fails, ask the dwarves how they do it.


Dojen wrote:
In the documentaries I have watched about making the pyramids the slabs were mined using hammer and chisel and then fractured thermally to separate them from the final face. That being said a lot of modern mining can also be done with explosives, would there not be a magical way of reproducing these explosions? If all else fails, ask the dwarves how they do it.

Explosives don't work well for marble quarrying. (It's been tried -- repeatedly -- and found wanting. Damages the marble. Not as big an issue when you just want ore that you're going to grind to dust anyway, but you don't want your marble pre-smashed.)

I'm still wondering why good old fashioned brute force and ignorance aren't sufficient to keep the town afloat. I mean, it's not like there weren't quarry towns in ancient Greece/Rome.


Ornery Hobbit wrote:

Adamantine seems to be 'too easy' a solution, plus it is extremely rare. What about mithril blades?

Would Animate Object work in regards to hooking the blade up to a gear and animating the gear so it turns and therefore makes the blade saw in and out?

That's an interesting approach. And it can be made permanent (relatively) cheaply at 1,000 gp per unit, if I'm reading the writeup correctly.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dig 1 tiny hole in the marble put a wedge in it

Dig another put a wedge in it

Do this in a line

Tap the wedges more or less at the same time 1 2 3 3 2 1 1 2 3 3 2 1

Will crack just about anything.


What Orfamay Quest said... the Romans, Greeks and anybody who built structures of marble in anceient times did not need diamond saws, nor steam engines. Hand-saws work fine. Marble is actually extremely soft as far as cutting it goes - slave labor works just fine for cutting stone, and cheaper to operate than a steam engine.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Marble mining in fantasy setting All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions