retraining: choose an archetype, or choose a new class altogether?

[Oswald Tetherton]

I have a Halfling rogue that I'm not all that excited about. He just hit 3XP, but I haven't played him at 2nd level yet, so I'm going to retrain him.

Potential solution #1: Retrain him by giving him the Scout archetype from the APG. I know a lot of people don't like rogues no matter what they look like, but I'd like to stick with the class if I can. The Scout archetype was the best fit for his background / personality.

Problem: Unless I'm missing something, my retrained Scout wouldn't have Knowledge (nature) or Survival as class skills, since he'd still be a rogue. If he's going to be an outdoorsy-type character, these skills would probably be helpful, and it would be a lot more fun to have the class skill +3 bonus along with them.

Potential solution #2: Retrain him by switching him to the ranger class.

Problem: I like the ranger class a lot, but I don't really want to make this particular character a ranger. I don't mind changing all of his stats and mechanics, but I've grown attached to his personality and background, and I don't know that they'd jive here.

How you can help me: Which of these solutions seems like the better choice? Or is there another solution I'm overlooking?

* I thought about mutli-classing him, but if he's going to pursue ranger from here on out, I'd really like to have the favored class bonus of +1hp or +1 skill point, which he wouldn't have, since he'd still have some rogue in him. (Or can I retrain him by simply changing his favored class to ranger, keep the 1 level of rogue, and go with ranger from now on?)

Thanks for your time and thoughts!

[PolydactylPolymath]

I was going to mention the Survivalist archetype, but realized that it didn't get either of the listed skills either. Fortunately, both skills can be acquired through traits.

The Guerilla regional trait from the Dragon Empires Primer grants +1 on Kn: Nature and Survival, and makes one of them a class skill, as does Know the Land from Faiths of Balance. Nirmathi Militia, Shoanti Tribesman, Child of Nature, and Militia Veteran are other traits that give Survival as a class skill.

Continuing on that theme, a rogue can also end up with more and better Favoured Terrain bonuses than a ranger can, by taking it as a Rogue Talent multiple times and spending a few feats on Extra Rogue Talent. This is also a great lead-in to Horizon Walker, and its wonderful Terrain Dominance feature.

As for your last question, you can indeed elect to change his favoured class to ranger as part of your retraining, while keeping the initial rogue level--should you choose to go in that direction.

[Matt2VK]

There's also the Archaeologist, Bard Archetype. If you want to play a more social, spell casting, class while still doing the trap finding thing.

Another suggestion is download the play test for the hybrid classes. There's the Slayer a Ranger/Rogue hybrid class and the Swashbuckler, a Fighter/Gunslinger class that uses DEX & CHA. Just need to be sure to grab the book when it get's published and then convert what ever got changed to make your character legal.

If you're staying with the Halfling and if you have the Halfling book, take a look at grabbing the Helpful Halfling trait. This trait allows you to give a +4 bonus to your aid others instead of the standard +2 aid other action.

[Oswald Tetherton]

Thanks for the ideas, Poly and Matt. Definitely a lot to consider! I don't have all the resources you mentioned, but I'll check what I do have and see where that leads me.

[Avatar-1]

Ranger sounds like a superior option to any listed so far considering what you've said.

Oswald wrote:

I like the ranger class a lot, but I don't really want to make this particular character a ranger. I don't mind changing all of his stats and mechanics, but I've grown attached to his personality and background, and I don't know that they'd jive here.

Change him to a ranger, play him with his personality and background. You can go so far as to make him out to think he's a rogue if you want (for flavour), though I'm not sure you even want to do that from what you're saying. Rangers are more outdoorsy/knowledge naturey/survivaly than a stereotypical rogue. And it's all in the Core Rulebook.

[kinevon]

If you do want to tretain the trapfinding, I believe the Trapper archetype for the Ranger gains that ability...

[Oswald Tetherton]

Thanks, Avatar and Kinevon. I'll add your input into the mix. I think I'm close to figuring out what I want to do, but I'm taking my time. It might be a little while before I have a chance to play this character due to prior commitments.

[Dylos]

If you are familiar with the Advanced Class Guide playtest at all, you might also look into the slayer class, because it sounds like something you might be interested in, it is a mix of Ranger and Rogue.

[RainyDayNinja]

Trapper Ranger could be good (urban ranger also gives Trapfinding, but loses Knowledge (nature) as a class skill). You could also just take a single level in Ranger, then go Rogue the rest of the way. That would get you the class skills and a bunch of proficiencies.

[CigarPete]

The Cosmopolitan feat from APG lets you learn two additional languages and take any two Int/Wis/Cha based skills and make them class skills.

[Oswald Tetherton]

Just when I thought I might have an idea for what to do ... Dylos, Ninja, and CigarPete offer more great info - thanks, you 3!

I usually tend to make more simplified characters (which is how I got into this predicament in the first place: I just wanted to make a stereotypical Halfling Rogue, because I'd never played one before), so this level of detail is a lot of fun to learn.

[Vrog Skyreaver]

Take a look at slayer from the advanced class guide playtest. it's a hybridization of ranger and rogue, and it seems (haven't seen one in play yet) pretty solid.