My one issue with AP4

[kysmartman]

Okay, the rule is that when you are rebuilding your decks and are short a card of that type, you have to get a card from any set 2 sets prior to the current AP, which means Basics only until you hit AP3.

Obviously, this doesn't come into play until AP3, where you can get AP1 boons, but it really becomes a problem with Jorgenfist which gives you a Card Feat. The issue is that there is 1 Blessing (Giants Lair) and only 2 Allies (and none in a 1 or 2 player game as City Gate is the 3-player location) with 4 whole Allies in a 6-player game. Oh and of course ZERO spells.

The issue is that you now get to pick between the Base Set Blessing on your role card, if you have one, OR Blessing of Lamashtu aka the best Villain killer blessing in the game with almost no fuss. You can even get Blessing of Abadar if you need trap help. You can now get Ezren that one Ray spell from AP1 he has missed, or you know amazing spells like freaking Lightning Bolt or Haste!!! That is insane!

Now, the spell part isn't likely to be an issue if you aren't playing Ezren as Seoni, Lini, and Lem should have maxed out their spell slots by then (the Divine spells aren't that compelling which is a separate issue). The Allies aren't as amazing unless you've missed out on Father Zantus (B) or Brodert Quink (2) (Ezren wants to thank you massively btw).

Basically, I'm saying that the boons for this scenario just aren't balanced enough to be a Card Feat reward scenario. Yeah, you can get weapons and items, but that is it. I mean we all agree that no one is ever going to take an armor feat unless they are absolutely forced to in AP6. The one from AP2 was annoying in that it had 0 allies, but it at least had a good mix of all the other boon types, and of course, you couldn't get anything but Basics from the box.

This is probably too late to affect S&S, but there shouldn't be a card feat scenario this unbalanced in it. It really detracts from my enjoyment of AP4 (well that and the stupid Harpies but they can usually be dealt with).

[csouth154]

Interesting point. I don't necessarily disagree, but consider this: The issue is moot, as far as spells go. There is nothing easier than arranging to be able to go to the box for spells between scenarios. All you have to do to banish a spell is give it to someone without the appropriate ability and have them cast it. Add this to the fact that you don't ever have to acquire boons that you don't want to, and it adds up to going to the box for a spell whenever you want. Blessings are harder to banish at will, but it can be arranged from time to time.

[Bidmaron]

Ky, understand your point. This is one of the reasons why I'd like to see the rule changed so that in AP1 you could take either basic or elite from the box if you get to draw from box. Then in AP2, you could take ANY base or character expansion card (regardless of basic/elite or otherwise).

This graduates your draws from the box in a more continuous fashion than the very harsh current ruling.

[csouth154]

Bidmaron, he's not saying the rule too harsh. He's saying that he thinks it's OP to get a card feat and then most likely be able to get a powerful card like lightning bolt or haste for free.

[kysmartman]

The only thing csouth is that it really only affects Ezren as I said because everyone else should have maxed out their spell slots by AP4, and he's the one that wants to keep acquiring spells so he can explore again for free. This leads to getting extra spells in a scenario even if you work it so that a spell is banished during a regular scenario, which I honestly have never done (outside of Mystic Inscription giving a non-matching spell type) mainly since I'm soloing the entire party and that's extra work. I rarely ever pass cards between characters fwiw though as you said that is a very OP ability with spells if done right.

Really as bad as the spell issue is, the blessing one is way worse. My large parties all got Blessings in this scenario to feed their give d12 or recharge powers in all but a few circumstances. The former is the best power feat on the role cards, and the latter is pretty close to the 2nd best (Val's shuffle weapon ability is pretty darn good as are a few others too).

It's just odd since the 5th scenario, at least for large parties, is pretty well balanced where you get everything in good amounts. This lead my 2 6 character parties (after my 5-character opening party completed AP4) went so heavily into blessings because I knew that they had a really good chance of great boons to add from that scenario plus they could pick their blessings now instead of worrying about them not showing up in the 5th scenario and getting stuck with a BotG's or Desna.

[kysmartman]

Ugh...now there is something else wrong with AP4. It is really, really easy with 3 or fewer characters. The Harpy's biggest effect is when you reveal it at the Temple (everyone has to discard a card) which isn't there with 3 or fewer. Yeah, that's fewer blessings if you fail the Wisdom check, but that's not discarding a card each. Then, you come to the 4th scenario, and what is the most difficult thing about that scenario? The freaking Tyrant Trolls which have to be defeated with either Fire (so Seoni, Ezren, Lem, or Sajan ONLY) or Acid (1st 3 only). So how many do you get to face in a 3 player game? ONE!!!

This AP is really, really fun with 5 or 6 characters (don't play with 4 but I know the Temple is the 4th location), but with 3 it is severely lacking. Really, really unfortunate as I think that could have been tweaked in playtesting.

[Hawkmoon269]

I wonder if the Tyrant trolls were kept for only larger groups because of the likelihood that smaller groups might be seriously lacking in the Fire trait department. Merisiel, Valeros, and Harsk as a trio might have an impossible task since the fire trait is a bit more scarce among Weapons and Allies (Poog is promo, so you can't count on everyone having him).

[Mike Selinker]

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

I wonder if the Tyrant trolls were kept for only larger groups because of the likelihood that smaller groups might be seriously lacking in the Fire trait department.

Uh-huh.

[kysmartman]

Oh I understand as my 2nd 3-character party is seriously screwed in getting the fire trait. It's Amiri (Flaming Mace), Harsk, and Lini so if I don't stumble upon Fiery Weapon (hey look Lini has an open spell slot for some reason, guess what spell I'll automatically get), I have no way to defeat them.

That said, I will say it again that that is the ONLY thing that makes that scenario difficult so it shifts from troubling to cakewalk when you downshift to 3 characters or less. AP4 was so easy that I honestly almost took out Holy Candle when I was setting up the decks for AP5 because I never even came close to needing it. Compare that to the 5 and 2 6 character games I had where almost every single one of them went to the last 5 blessings using the Holy Candle every single time. Heck, I even had Seelah be the one that ran into the Tyrant Troll (couldn't defeat it due to lack of fire), and I still handled that scenario easily.

AP4 for me went from 5 stars down to 3 after this experience. Way, way, way too easy with 3 or fewer characters. Epic with 5 or 6 though.

[Nathaniel Gousset]

Isn't Holy Fire given the Fire Trait ?

[3Doubloons]

Nathaniel Gousset wrote:

Isn't Holy Fire given the Fire Trait ?

There is no such card as Holy Fire. Holy Light doesn't have the Fire trait.