How do you handle expanding divine spell lists?

[Ascalaphus]

Druids, clerics and a few other classes have access to all spells on their spell lists. Fine with the CRB, but when you add UC, UM, APG and other books, the list of spells a cleric has access to increases rather faster than the list of things a sorcerer or even a wizard has access to. This obviously goes even faster if the GM has a liberal attitude towards 3PP products with more spells in them.

So how do you handle this? Do you like this, or have you imposed some sort of restrictions? Has anyone come up with a novel solution?

[Imperatrix_Terra]

It hasn't ever really bothered our group to allow new Paizo spells, though we are only moderate powergamers at the most. We don't allow 3PP material without DM approval, though.

[PD]

As the number of spells available increases, diety-specific lists start to become much more viable. That's one way to go.

[Majuba]

I review and approve/disapprove non-core spells, max 1/game session. That's for divine or arcane.

[ZZTRaider]

The campaign I'm currently running is very low magic, so I limit the only casters (two Paladins) to the core spell list by default. Fluff wise, they don't recognize their spells as actually being magic, but rather just blessings from the gods.

From there, I find a way to work in non-core spells in as loot (in "prayerbooks") as it seems appropriate.

[The black raven]

I wanted to put a limit based on level or casting ability modifier. My players convinced me I should not :-))

All elements not in the CRB require GM approval though.

[Weirdo]

It's never bothered my group. Most of the important stuff is in the CRB anyway. I think we only use a handful of spells outside it - Breath of Life and a few utility spells like Deadeye's Lore.

If it does bug you, one easy solution is to say that prepared divine casters only automatically have access to the spells in the CRB and have to learn the others through one or more of:

1) research (perusing holy texts) in the same way a wizard does, including the costs

2) encountering the unusual spells during adventuring

3) gaining one or two per level, possibly from a deity-specific list.

Divine casters who are interested in spells outside the CRB then simply have to take note of which unusual spells they've learned, like a wizard's player keeps track of a spellbook but without the in-game construct.

[Ascalaphus]

Hmm. Religion-specific lists certainly become an option if you open up the wide vistas of 3PP spells.

[The Beardinator]

I make all of my divine casters write up a spellbook outside-of-game in which they choose all of the spells that they think they will ever use. This serves so that they get a good idea for what the spell does as they commit it to paper and memory, and they can choose if they actually want some of the more obscure spells. I do put restrictions on spells that are opposite to their deity's portfolio.

[GreatEscapist]

Yeah my group has never really regulated that actually, though I think I'm the only divine caster with a full printed list from the SRD. I think as long as I don't take forever to choose and subsequently look up my spells at the time of use, no one really cares. There's been some debate about how evil a spell is just because our Paly is a little domineering (anyone surprised?) but for the most part my cleric takes weather based spells and normal healer spells and it's never been a problem.

I mean, if you have a player using the full list and that is a problem somehow you could also ban them from leaving their spell slots available for preparation later. Sure they have a ton of options for spells every day, but unless they can predict the future they just may not prep weapons against evil before going against a hoard of undead with DR 5 / -

[Mysterious Stranger]

I don’t really see this as a problem. The divine spell list is for the most part more restricted than the arcane list. Many of the spells are situational useful and end up getting swapped out for either cure or summon spells. For the most part the divine spell lists are more narrowly focused than the arcane spell lists. The cleric spell list for example has a lot of healing and buff spells but really does not have a lot of attack spells. The druid spell list has more attack spells, but even those are generally less potent than those on the wizard or sorcerer list.

Having a huge list of spells you can’t cast because you did not memorize it today is really not a problem. In fact having a huge list can often be just as much of a disadvantage as it is an advantage. With a prepared arcane caster you only have to worry about learning the spells you know. If fireball is not on your list of spells known you can ignore it. The cleric has a lot more work because any spell on his list can potentially be memorized.

Consider the situation where you want to memorize a 1st level spell that allows you to control another person’s actions. If the wizard knows charm person he is able to turn an unfriendly person into a friendly person, job done. The cleric has more choices; he has two spells that seem like they will work. He can memorize command, or forbid action, in both cases he is limited to specific things he can cause the person to do, or not do. In addition he also has other limited spells that will allow him to control someone. He could also memorize compel hostility, fairness or sanctuary, as these also allow him to control a person in one way or another. The Wizard has fewer choices, but his single choice is for the most part better than any choice the cleric has.

[Zhayne]

I stopped using clerics.

[Rycaut]

Perhaps it is because I run a lot of PFS but it never occurred to me to ban spells in my campaigns. I don't allow 3rd party materials (mostly because I'm not familiar with most 3rd party materials - and few fit smoothly into Golarion) but Paizo products I allow - subject to the usualy rules of course - and if a cleric asks for spells their god would be opposed to I might not allow that (i.e. a cleric of Phrasama wouldn't use animate dead etc).

To take the "charm person" example given above - Command, Forbid Action and similar clerical spells like Compassionate Ally (my cleric's personal favorite) all offer better IN COMBAT utility than Charm Person. Yes, their duration is shorter than Charm Person - but they also do not suffer penalties in combat and it is often the case that buying just one or two turns is enough to turn a battle. Compassionate Ally in particular is a lot of fun - forcing an enemy to spend his next bunch of turns healing allies often takes a key enemy out of the combat for quite some time and takes advantage of the difference between how much you can heal vs how much damage can be dished out.