Another Headband of VI Post...

[Calimar_T]

Hi,

well, i read a lot of those Headband Posts, but could't find what i was searching for, so...

Easy Question:

I did craft a Headband +2 on Level 4.
My History Skill which i crafted into it has now 4 Skill Ranks.

When i level to 5, does the Headband then grant me 5 Skill Ranks for History (as i would have gotten if i was crafting it on Level 5) ?

And here comes the hard part:

If yes, where is it written that the Headband levels with you ? :)

Regards, Calimar_T.

[MurphysParadox]

Short Answer: Yes.

Long Answer: After 24 hours of wearing a headband, you can treat your stat score as higher for all leveling up stuff, such as skill ranks and feat requirements. So when you level up, your intellect bonus is considered one higher, so your skill ranks to spend is one higher. It is also retroactive.

The idea of tying the headband to a specific skill is... short hand, I guess? It makes it far easier to track which skill ranks are lost if you remove/lose the headband.

[seebs]

It's not shorthand, it is an actual rule. You do not get retroactive skill ranks for an enhancement bonus to Int. You do get them for a permanent and inherent change (such as a tome or series of wish spells would give you).

In 3E, you just didn't get skill ranks. Pathfinder gives skill ranks for inherent changes because otherwise it's a horrible paperwork problem to figure out how many skill ranks a high-level character should have.

But if items gave you skill ranks, and you didn't use fixed skill ranks associated with the item, consider how abusive it would be: Put on the item, wait 24 hours, use your now max-ranked crafting skill. Take it off. Put it on. Wait 24 hours. Use your now max-ranked knowledge skills. And so on.

It's not that the headband "levels with you", it's that the ranks they give you are always equal to your HD.

Quote:

A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.

You might argue you have to take it off and put it back on for 24 hours to get the skills to "level up", but it's definitely "the wearer's total hit dice", not the hit dice or level of the crafter.

[MurphysParadox]

It is a combination of two factors.

One is the rule you quoted, seebs, which provides the retroactive bonus. Moving forward, the additional skill points come from the generic rule for all stat bonus items and wearing them for 24 hours.

Once you level up, you get an additional skill point because your intellect bonus is one higher. Just as someone with a 12 Dex and a belt of +2 dex can, at their next odd level up, qualify for a feat with a prereq of 13.

[Calimar_T]

Hi,

thanks seebs, i did read the description but it seems i didn't understand the what "wearer" did imply in that context.

Regards, Calimar.

[seebs]

I think the general rule about retroactive stat bonuses is why people expect skill points, but the actual behavior isn't just a shorthand, but an intentional change from that rule. You aren't getting skill points and just saving time by pretending it's always in a particular skill, you're just getting ranks in a particular skill whether or not you already have points spent on it.

[Majuba]

MurphysParadox wrote:

Once you level up, you get an additional skill point because your intellect bonus is one higher.

Pretty sure this is what you mean, but just in case: The extra skill point you add when leveling must be in the skill provided by the headband.

[Snowleopard]

I thought that intelligence was the only exception to the retroactive adding of skillpoints. I thought that any intelligence enhancing apparatus also provides the wearer with a skill at full ranks for his/her level. And that avoids the entire retroactive problem.
If you find a intelligence enhancing item it provides you with a number of skill(s) at maximum rank for your amount of HD and the skill(s) is/are determined by the GM or random (GM's descretion) and if you construct the item yourself you can determine which ones you want. A +2 item will provide 1 skill, a +4 item will provide 2 skills and a +6 item will provide 3 skills.
The item providing this will circumvent any problems associated with retroactive skillpoint adding and is actually more powerfull then adding skillpoints naturally as it is possible to make a different intelligence enhancing item that will provide different skills.

I personally would houserule the skillpoints to be added retroactively and the item providing no skill. But that would be a houerule.