Natural attacks vs manufactured weapons.

[Combat Monster]

I'm curious about something. If I wanted to play a Barbarian modeled after the Wolverine comic book character, I have two options.

The first is I can find some manufactured weapon such as a reflavored punching dagger, spiked gauntlets, pata or tekki kagi and get additional attacks based on my BAB at a descending rate. For example as a 15th level barbarian I could make attacks at +15/+10/+5.

alternately I could get natural attacks via the Greater Beast Totem Rage feature and at fifteenth level could attack at +15/+15.

Is that middle attack at +10 and the third attack at +5 better then two +15 attacks?

I can get manufactured weapons made of special materials and make them magic to boot. The Eldritch Claws feat seems to more or less equal that out.

The only advantage I can think to an extra attack or two with manufactured weapons is the chance of rolling a crit. Otherwise the fewer attacks at a higher BAB seems the way to go.

Is there anything I'm missing here?

[Arcturus24]

You could go with one manufactured weapon and one claw? That way, you get all those iterative attacks, and an extra claw attack at bab - 5. If you're allowed to take multiattack, that becomes a -2. Or you could go two-weapon fighting with two manufactured weapons.

[Combat Monster]

I'm not trying to minmax too much, Arcturus. Let's pretend I want to flavor myself as Wolverine. I plan to use "claws*" and only "claws" (except in limited circumstances, For example where maybe I am fighting something resistant to slashing damage alongside things that are not resistant.)

The thing I am trying to figure out is are two claw attacks at the highest BAB better then 3-4 attacks at lower bonuses. Outside of those 1-2 extra attacks possibly being critical threats, it seems to me natural attacks would be the better option. Sure I can take two weapon fighting but I am using feats and I take more penalties on hits that are less likely to hit when compared to natural attacks.

That is the crux of this thread. Is it better to go with manufactured weapons, likely with two weapon fighting feat chain, or would natural attacks pan out better in the long haul.

*Manufactured "claws" would be one of the weapons noted in my first post.

[Arcturus24]

In that case, two-weapon-fighting might be best. In return for a -2 penalty, you get more attacks, which is worth it in my opinion.

[Combat Monster]

Thanks for the advice, Arcturus.

I've been considering building something like this for a few campaigns.

[Cyrad]

Have you considered the skinwalker race?

[Vamptastic]

How do you get the healing factor, that's what's always stumped me in my attempts to make Wolvie.

[Mathwei ap Niall]

The big deal with natural attacks vs. Manufactured attacks has always been # of attacks per round. If you intend to ONLY ever use claw attacks then re-flavored manufactured weapons are the superior option. You will average greater damage per round by end game.

However if you are not opposed to throwing in a third natural attack (bite is easiest to do)as well as the claw attacks then Natural Attacks take a significant advantage until the early teen levels. If you add in a 4th natural attack (Gore, sting, wing, spellcombat strike, etc) then natural attacks will ALWAYS be a better option unless you are a crit-fishing build.

The advantage is ALL of your attacks have the same chance of hitting as your first attack (unlike iteratives) AND they are single stat dependent (strength) making your build less MAD so granting higher to-hit and damage bonuses.

In the average game 3 natural attacks will ALWAYS trump iterative attacks for anything except Crit fishing Magi or Greater Vital striking Druid builds.

[Combat Monster]

Cyrad, I hadn't. I looked it up on PFSRD and it didn't quite strike me for a Wolverine build. (bite attack, less damage from claws etc) I have to say that if I ever want to play a Lycanthrope in an alternate race game, this is likely to be the way to go. Thanks for the information.

Vamptastic, I was thinking a Ring of Regeneration combined with the Fast Healer feat after seeing a recent thread. Also go invulnerable Ranger for a bit more DR.

I believe Mythic Guardian would have a few abilities for a Wolverine focused on being able to stay in the fight. Impervious Body comes to mind.

Adapting Wolverine to the PF setting means I won't get everything exactly right, or everything right away. But I've got a few things in mind.

Mathwei ap Niall, That was my original thrust for this thread. I won't be taking a bite or 4th natural attack. I wondered if I'd be better off with two natural claw attacks or going manufactured.

From the sounds of it, I may be better off going natural until midgame where I would have the GP to make my cool Keen, Furious, Huntsman, Impervious, Wounding Pata made of Adamantine stored in Gauntlets of the Weaponmaster. I could focus on buying that Ring of Regen to begin with at lower levels.

And if I play with a group that allows retraining I won't even have to keep the old powers if I want to change them up.

Thanks again everybody for the input.