Dirty Trick + Dueling Weapon

[Pirate Rob]

Question: Can a weapon with the dueling property be used to perform a dirty trick maneuver?

First, to help dispel any confusion, I am talking about the Dueling property from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.

Dueling:

A dueling weapon bears magical enhancements that makes it particularly effective at performing certain combat maneuvers. When a dueling weapon is used to perform a combat maneuver that utilizes the weapon only (see below), it grants a luck bonus equal to twice its enhancement bonus on the CMB check made to carry out the maneuver. The dueling weapon also grants this same luck bonus to the wielder’s CMD score against these types of combat maneuvers. These combat maneuvers include disarm and trip maneuvers, but not bull rush, grapple, or overrun maneuvers. If you’re using the additional combat maneuvers in the Advanced Player’s Guide, this also includes any dirty trick maneuvers that utilize the weapon, as well as reposition combat maneuvers, but not drag or steal combat maneuvers. Note that this luck bonus stacks with the weapon’s enhancement bonus, which in and of itself adds to CMB checks normally.

According to the FAQ: Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver.

Meaning as per the FAQ there's no way to get the dueling weapon bonus on dirty tricks...

Aside:

There is the Net Trickery feat which allows one to make dirty tricks with a net, even though net adept feat lets you treat nets as melee weapons they are still not eligible for melee enhancements, such as dueling.

Unless there's something obvious I'm missing if you'd be kind enough to hit the FAQ button, I'd appreciate it...

[proftobe]

This is a case of specific trumps general. The FAQ ruling about dirty trick doesn't apply because the ability states that it works with it. It doesn't matter that you normally don't get a bonus. If the property specifically calls out the ability(dirty trick in this case) then it gets the bonus unless there is some Errata/FAQ of the the actual ability.

[blackbloodtroll]

Snag Net is the melee version of the Net. Use it with Net feats.

[Tels]

Keep in mind that Dirty Trick is very dependent on how you do something, not what you are doing.

For instance, if you pick up some dirt off the ground and throw it in an ogres eyes (blind), you aren't using the weapon to perform the dirty trick.

If you're using your spear to jab the ogre in the groin (sickened), you are using the weapon.

So with Dirty Trick, if you can find some way of using your weapon to perform the trick, then you gain the weapon bonuses with Dirty Trick. This applies with or without the Dueling property.

Remember, the FAQ doesn't say you can only use weapons for disarm, trip or sunder, it just says that those are, normally, the ones being used.

[TGMaxMaxer]

You should also read the blogpost where SKR mentions using a sap to hit someone in the groin to apply sickened, and specifies it as one example where the weapon counts.

[Michael Huston]

I think I have a few more examples that I as a GM would allow:

1. "Ringing the bell" - opponent wearing a helm gets the cartoony added deafened

2. "Pulling a Zorro" - low level mooks with crap Intel seeing their opponent write a Z in their shirt = Dazzled

3. "My one and only weakness!!!" - opponent is weak to fire or lives in low light or dark? Fire weapon in the face should blind them, equally acid for rock, fire for ice, and in general, I believe fire to the eyes should always be accepted. Its a freaking flaming weapon. Shoot, I'll even let it act like a torch.

[kinevon]

Use a bladed weapon to give them a scalp wound above the eyes to blind them. Scalp wounds bleed like the dickens, so having the blood blind them until they can clear it is very appropos.

[Major_Blackhart]

Crack them in the skull with the pommel of the sword.
Smack them in the nose with the hilt.
Flatten their crotch with the flat of the blade.

These are examples of dirty tricks that use weapons.