The Druid, the Animal Companion, & the Frustrated GM

[Silentman73]

So a player in my campaign is playing a Druid who chooses to have an animal companion. He chose a wolf. It's a great companion, but has this very frustrating habit of tripping things per its natural abilities. It doesn't provoke an Attack of Opportunity for its trip (which is just part of its natural attack), and its attack roll just has to be higher than the opponent's CMD. Running the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path almost specifically as written (slight CR adjustment to account for a 6-member party vs. the 4-5 member parties the AP was written for; this typically manifests as an extra foe or two in each combat encounter).

I'm having a rough time dealing with that trip. Since the party is just 2nd level, the enemy CMDs aren't tremendously high, and consequently that wolf is getting a free trip on every hit, forcing foes to deal with it, and very quickly neutralizing opportunities to tactically challenge the PCs (since there isn't a lot of mechanical challenge at that level).

I don't want to punish the player for being intelligent in his use of the as-written rules for his wolf companion, but there's a part of me that's wondering if I'm just flat out missing something in dealing with this ability. It's kinda like Color Spray at low levels: it's a very devastating (for its level) combat ability that has relatively low cost for use.

Thoughts?

[Duiker]

"its attack roll just has to be higher than the opponent's CMD"

This isn't how it works. When you get a free trip attempt, it just means that if your attack hit, then you get to make a trip attempt, which means rolling another d20 and then adding CMB, which for a 2nd level wolf is only going to be +3 (2 from BAB, 1 from strength).

But yeah, if you read it that the attack roll just had to beat CMD then sure, every successful attack is more or less going to trip, because the ACs and CMDs are vaguely the same, so beating AC probably beat CMD.

[Silentman73]

I just double checked the SRD, and you're right! It isn't an automatic trip; it merely provides the opportunity to make an additional roll as a free action. So there's at least some chance of failure.

This said, it still makes for a difficult to deal with (from a challenge perspective) ability, particularly since the balancing factor of this combat maneuver for PCs (the provocation of an AoO) isn't there.

[Duiker]

*shrug* If your players are level 2, they should be in part 2 of book one of WotR. First enemy of note that you hit there is Wenduag. He has AC19, which means your wolf has to roll a 16 to hit him in the first place, and then another 16 to trip him. That's 25% squared, or only an 8% chance.

The next enemy of note is Hosilla with AC 18, CMD 15, so you need a 15 and 12 which calculates down to a 13% chance of getting her tripped. Of course, she also has a reach weapon, so when your wolf moves in, she's going to get an attack of opportunity as it closes. At +5 to hit, she's got a 60% of hitting, with average damage of 7.5. So if that wolf goes for her, odds are pretty decent that she's putting that 17hp wolf in the ground on her next turn.

That all seems perfectly reasonable to me, and I don't see that it should be all that overpowering.

[Silentman73]

Yeah, both Wenduag and Hosilla gave the party a challenge (in fact, a crit from Wenduag with her longbow actually killed one of the party). The mongrelmen and acolytes weren't much of a challenge (though they probably weren't meant to be; sort of walking XP meatbags, though I'm skipping specific XP awards after a Mike Mearls article I read for D&D Next, and choosing to just advance the party a level at approximately the points the AP indicates they're to be advanced; the group seems to like that).

I can see how it isn't as much of an issue with having to actually make a separate roll for the trips; it was a misunderstanding of the rules on my part (I'll double check my Bestiary and CRB; could also be there was a printing error that's corrected in the SRD, I'm not sure).

[jwes55]

Depending on what type of group you're running yeah trip can be an incredible tactic for a well-constructed party. The wolf's trip is no different and even less powerful/effective than a trip-built Monk or Fighter-type, or a Toppling spell sorc or wizard. I had the pleasure of running a PFS scenario with a gal who ran a trip-built monk that got a free action stomp on anything she tripped. It was like attending a trip-clinic and ironically, she played a key role in us not stumbling through the scenario.

Long-term I wouldn't worry about trip overly much, it gets less and less viable as the CRs mount. I hope they named the wolf "Trippy"

[Silentman73]

jwes55 wrote:

Depending on what type of group you're running yeah trip can be an incredible tactic for a well-constructed party. The wolf's trip is no different and even less powerful/effective than a trip-built Monk or Fighter-type, or a Toppling spell sorc or wizard. I had the pleasure of running a PFS scenario with a gal who ran a trip-built monk that got a free action stomp on anything she tripped. It was like attending a trip-clinic and ironically, she played a key role in us not stumbling through the scenario.

Long-term I wouldn't worry about trip overly much, it gets less and less viable as the CRs mount. I hope they named the wolf "Trippy"

He was named "Waff" (rhymes with "quaff"). He died, I believe, also to Wenduag. She was kind of a crit machine (I was rolling quite well for that fight).

Yeah, the frustration was just the loss of mobility for enemies who might have otherwise been inclined to start trying to flank (or stay away from the ridiculously damage-outputting Barbarian in the party; girl was dealing 30-point crits with that damned greatsword...). On top of that, even spending the Move action to get up from the trip provokes an AoO.

Nasty stuff.

[Rynjin]

It will quickly fall off in usefulness, just be a bit patient.

[David knott 242]

Silentman73 wrote:

I just double checked the SRD, and you're right! It isn't an automatic trip; it merely provides the opportunity to make an additional roll as a free action. So there's at least some chance of failure.

This said, it still makes for a difficult to deal with (from a challenge perspective) ability, particularly since the balancing factor of this combat maneuver for PCs (the provocation of an AoO) isn't there.

This is no worse than a fighter who took Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as his 1st level feats -- and he would actually be better than the wolf at tripping foes. The only thing stopping most fighters from doing that is the requirement for an intelligence of 13+.

[jwes55]

Silentman73 wrote:

jwes55 wrote:

Depending on what type of group you're running yeah trip can be an incredible tactic for a well-constructed party. The wolf's trip is no different and even less powerful/effective than a trip-built Monk or Fighter-type, or a Toppling spell sorc or wizard. I had the pleasure of running a PFS scenario with a gal who ran a trip-built monk that got a free action stomp on anything she tripped. It was like attending a trip-clinic and ironically, she played a key role in us not stumbling through the scenario.

Long-term I wouldn't worry about trip overly much, it gets less and less viable as the CRs mount. I hope they named the wolf "Trippy"

He was named "Waff" (rhymes with "quaff"). He died, I believe, also to Wenduag. She was kind of a crit machine (I was rolling quite well for that fight).

Yeah, the frustration was just the loss of mobility for enemies who might have otherwise been inclined to start trying to flank (or stay away from the ridiculously damage-outputting Barbarian in the party; girl was dealing 30-point crits with that damned greatsword...). On top of that, even spending the Move action to get up from the trip provokes an AoO.

Nasty stuff.

Nasty, indeed. On the positive side, if you ever want to challenge a low level party, can throw a pack of wolves at 'em.

[Fraust]

One nit pick...unless things have changed in the APs, WoR isn't intended for 4-5 characters...it's intended for 4. Also, the druid is a fairly powerful class, largely due to having an animal companion that adjusts action economy further in the player's favor, with action economy normally being in the player's favor to begin with. Having 6 PCs, one of which is a druid, doesn't translate into an additional extra badguy per encounter. Your party is 50% stronger than the assumption based purely on number of PCs.

I'm not trying to sound critical, or like I'm harping on you. But I would strongly consider adding in more enemies than one per encounter and see if that doesn't help.

[RedDogMT]

Some animal companions are quite good for first or second level characters. They can make the characters 'feel' like they are overpowered.

One question I am wondering about is how you handle the animal companions of your players. Paizo released the 'Animal Archive' book some time ago and I found it very useful in clarifying many elements about companions.

For example, I treat animal companions as NPCs that players have a great deal of influence over. The character will use a trick to order the companion to perform an action, but I usually take care of deciding how that action is played out. This means I usually move the miniature and describe what occurs. Sometimes, something will occur that the player did not ask for (such as an animal companion guarding his downed master or the companion being distracted by something). I do usually let players perform the attack, damage, and saving throws though.

When I decide what the animal companion will do, I also take into account their motivation. For example, when players have full control over their companion, many times they will make the companion perform actions that are not part of an animal's nature or training. The best example is putting the companion in a position to allow the druid to have a flank. The 'Animal Archive' has 'Flank' as a trick...and if the companion does have it, the druid cannot make the companion flank.

Now, I go a step beyond the rules and consider the natural inclination animals may have. This means that wolves are likely to circle and flank targets on their own, boars will usually charge an opponent, monkeys will throw poo, etc.

You may not want to take on the responsibility of managing animal companions as NPCs. It's not for everyone. However, the one great thing that comes out of it is that since it is an NPC, I am able to breathe more life into it than a player generally would. The Ranger in our group has a dog animal companion that has as much personality as some of the characters in the group.

[The_Hanged_Man]

Don't worry about it. Animal companions don't scale well for the higher levels anyway, so let him enjoy it while he can.

[MyTThor]

Not for nothing, but I'd suggest adding spoiler tags, especially if you're quoting AP stat blocks with so much specificity.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

As others have said. In a few levels when player gear starts becoming important, the player will have a hard time keeping the wolf alive and effective, yet still equipping himself enough to stay alive and effective.

Go ahead and let him shine for now. It will self correct pretty soon.

Also remember, a lot of people/creatures would be more afraid of a wolf than a person (even if not as dangerous) so might choose to target the wolf first. "Good lord they brought a freakin wolf in here! You and you, kill it before it bites me!"
Don't overuse this however, since that would tend to make the druid's player feel like you are picking on him.

[anthonydido]

MyTThor wrote:

Not for nothing, but I'd suggest adding spoiler tags, especially if you're quoting AP stat blocks with so much specificity.

I am going to second this. PLEASE put spoiler tags if you're going to mention specifics of an AP. Luckily my WoR group is past those points but other people may read this who are currently playing or intend on playing WoR. Please don't spoil things for others. Thank You.