TWF - Shield Slam during AoO (with Shield of Bashing in Main-Hand)

[Sascha Weber]

Hi folks,

I know there is a lot of discussions already on this topic, but I might bring in some new "flavor" and I really could not get an answer to my "problem".

What I have (I do not, I am the GM, but my player has):
- Fighter (Armor Master) lvl 7
- Skilled with Shield (Feats: Improved Bull Rush, TWF, all that stuff)
- Wearing magic "Shield of bashing"
- Has the feat "Shield Slam"
- Combat Reflexes for additional AoO's

So I thought I solved it today, because as several people here in this forum posted:
"You can bash an opponent with a light shield or heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon"

^^ but that is not true anymore, see the errata:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9oga

Quote:

Shield Bash: If I make a shield bash, does it always have to be an off-hand attack?

The text for a shield bash assumes you're making a bash as an off-hand attack, but you don't have to. You can, for example, just make a shield bash attack (at your normal, main-hand attack bonus) or shield bash with your main hand and attack with a sword in your off-hand.

Update: Page 152—In the Shield Bash Attacks section, in the first sentence, delete “using it as an off-hand weapon.”

—Sean K Reynolds, 08/30/11

So now my question:

With this setup, if this character gets an AoO, using his Main-Hand weapon, in this case the Shield of Bashing, will he cause a "free" Bull Rush on this AoO? And if he gets 5 AoO's (he could), will these all cause the Bull Rush?

Also, if that Bull Rush fails, does this have any further consequences on the character? (e.g. Bull Rush says: ' If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.') But this is not a "movement bull rush" but one done by the shield...?

Well it confuses me. Hope it does not confuse you folks.

Thanks in advance.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Yup. There are builds built around this, every shield bash attack gets a free bullrush once you have the feats set up correctly.

And, he can't follow on an AoO so far as I know, so the movement only applies during his turn.

If he doesn't move at all on his turn, you might give him the 5ft step that he didn't use as a possible move with the bullrush, but that's all your call it's not really a rule.

[Sascha Weber]

The player does have "Step up", thanks for bringing this up (cause I forgot that one).

Can he use "Step up" to move during the AoO? I know this only makes sense if his "bull rush" did not push the enemy more than 5ft (which he actually might push them).

Also, my player tries to use all this specially in rooms, to push folks against walls, so they are "prone". Cause guess what, when they try to stand up, he does get an AoO. That AoO has a bull rush, and that means mosts opponents will never ever be able to stand up again.

That would be another question: Is there any feat you can take to avoid causing an AoO when you try to stand up?

[TGMaxMaxer]

There are a couple, a rogue talent, the Monkey Style feat line I think, probably more but they're scarce for a reason.

[Martiln]

You can't knock people prone using bull rush, so how is he doing that to begin with?

[TGMaxMaxer]

It's a side benefit of the Shield Slam feat, if you push them into a wall with the movement from the bullrush they auto fall prone.

[Combat Monster]

Sascha Weber wrote:

The player does have "Step up", thanks for bringing this up (cause I forgot that one).

Can he use "Step up" to move during the AoO? I know this only makes sense if his "bull rush" did not push the enemy more than 5ft (which he actually might push them).

Also, my player tries to use all this specially in rooms, to push folks against walls, so they are "prone". Cause guess what, when they try to stand up, he does get an AoO. That AoO has a bull rush, and that means mosts opponents will never ever be able to stand up again.

That would be another question: Is there any feat you can take to avoid causing an AoO when you try to stand up?

I want to address the never being able to stand up again part of your post. If a character tries to rise from the prone they are subject to an attack of opportunity that happens BEFORE they stand up. They can't be knocked down before they stand back up.

What should happen is they begin to rise from prone, prompt an AoO and get attacked, they are considered to not be prone after the conclusion of the AoO when they complete the action that prompted the AoO. So the opponent should not have an issue never being able to stand up again.