Goblin Squad Member
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In Pathfinder TT there is unconsciousness before death. In the recent Video at 2:09 it looks like the fighter falls to the rogue with a small bit of red (HP) left. From checking the past threads I couldn't find anything definitive on this point. In PVP it looks to have unconsciousness where you could possibly be healed before dying or conquer your opponent without killing them and still loot them. In PvE it looked to be that the monsters went to 0 HP and fall. Anyone have some detail on this or know if it is set to have unconsciousness and an opportunity to heal before death or have mercy but still win in PVP?
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Pathfinder TT there is unconsciousness before death. In the recent Video at 2:09 it looks like the fighter falls to the rogue with a small bit of red (HP) left. From checking the past threads I couldn't find anything definitive on this point. In PVP it looks to have unconsciousness where you could possibly be healed before dying or conquer your opponent without killing them and still loot them. In PvE it looked to be that the monsters went to 0 HP and fall. Anyone have some detail on this or know if it is set to have unconsciousness and an opportunity to heal before death or have mercy but still win in PVP?
It is my hope that there is a pre death state, where if aid is administered within a short period of time, the victim can be revived.
If however the victim chooses to "release" him/herself they must certainly have that option.
It would give me no greater pleasure than to be able to walk upon the battlefield and heal the fallen.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Yep, we have a dying state currently. The intention is that others can heal you while you're in it, and you might have feats (such as Diehard) that you can use at a steep cost to get yourself back up. Characters might also take Deathknell-style effects that kill a dying character for a bonus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In Pathfinder TT there is unconsciousness before death. In the recent Video at 2:09 it looks like the fighter falls to the rogue with a small bit of red (HP) left. From checking the past threads I couldn't find anything definitive on this point. In PVP it looks to have unconsciousness where you could possibly be healed before dying or conquer your opponent without killing them and still loot them. In PvE it looked to be that the monsters went to 0 HP and fall. Anyone have some detail on this or know if it is set to have unconsciousness and an opportunity to heal before death or have mercy but still win in PVP?It is my hope that there is a pre death state, where if aid is administered within a short period of time, the victim can be revived.
If however the victim chooses to "release" him/herself they must certainly have that option.
It would give me no greater pleasure than to be able to walk upon the battlefield and heal the fallen.
This is one of the things I liked in Guild Wars 2. When in the pre-death state, you were lying on the ground with an automatic emote for help. You could try to get out of the state yourself by using 1-4 specific abilities in this state on a near-dead mob: if it died you came out of the state. You could also be brought on your feet by other players through a special ability that everyone has.
Fights could get very hectic and zergy in GW2 so I feel that this particular feature did not always show its full potential but I was always grateful when I saw another player kneeling down next to me, and I saw my healthbar go up.
A nice twist was that the more people used the ability on a single incapacitated player, the faster he would get up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Ryan and Stephen
Thanks so much for clearing this up. I'm really happy to see that will be in MVP as it is an important part of Pathfinder. Is it determined yet if you can loot/defeat without killing using this method or if you have to go ahead and kill outright to win and loot? For those who are good, it would be great to have a stabilize your enemy as merciful but still loot as the winner. It may not work with the system though and I understand that.
Anyway, thanks again for the clarification.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will probably not be able to loot someone who is dying, if for no other reason than your body has not yet gone from character to object.
Alas, I guess that killing blow is still the win… Maybe down the road an option for the dying player to accept a stabilize from the enemy in exchange for a randomized "bag of loot"? Or maybe we just stick to the good old fashion shank him and have done!
Thanks for the clarification.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You will probably not be able to loot someone who is dying, if for no other reason than your body has not yet gone from character to object.Alas, I guess that killing blow is still the win… Maybe down the road an option for the dying player to accept a stabilize from the enemy in exchange for a randomized "bag of loot"? Or maybe we just stick to the good old fashion shank him and have done!
Thanks for the clarification.
I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)You will probably not be able to loot someone who is dying, if for no other reason than your body has not yet gone from character to object.Alas, I guess that killing blow is still the win… Maybe down the road an option for the dying player to accept a stabilize from the enemy in exchange for a randomized "bag of loot"? Or maybe we just stick to the good old fashion shank him and have done!
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't think that is a bad idea at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think it would be the honorable way. Not a must but an option down the road if it is even needed. With a game revolving around interaction this would give another upstanding way to interact. If you revived them and took the loot and then killed them right after it would be a double hit and not loot (based on timer I would think). I also see it as another way to form friendships or alliances if you have a way to show someone else your mettle but still give them your hand in friendship and form a relationship.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yep, we have a dying state currently. The intention is that others can heal you while you're in it, and you might have feats (such as Diehard) that you can use at a steep cost to get yourself back up. Characters might also take Deathknell-style effects that kill a dying character for a bonus.
Both my LG Monk - Destiny's Twin and my CE Alt "Monster in the Basement" take equal pleasure in reading this response!!! My CN - Bandit (Main) is indifferent on the topic.
Believe it or not, this is a huge role playing element.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)
Wow.... I actually went through several reactions to this, but I'll leave it with the most respectful.... "No second chances"..... "No Quarter Given, None Asked For".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)Wow.... I actually went through several reactions to this, but I'll leave it with the most respectful.... "No second chances"..... "No Quarter Given, None Asked For".
Suit yourself.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yep, we have a dying state currently. The intention is that others can heal you while you're in it, and you might have feats (such as Diehard) that you can use at a steep cost to get yourself back up. Characters might also take Deathknell-style effects that kill a dying character for a bonus.
I hope you can choose to void this dying state. Personally I have no wish to spend two minutes dying when I know I am not getting revived and would rather select die and respawn.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yep, we have a dying state currently. The intention is that others can heal you while you're in it, and you might have feats (such as Diehard) that you can use at a steep cost to get yourself back up. Characters might also take Deathknell-style effects that kill a dying character for a bonus.I hope you can choose to void this dying state. Personally I have no wish to spend two minutes dying when I know I am not getting revived and would rather select die and respawn.
Yes please!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd love a Star Wars Galaxies "unconscious but not dead" state.
An in-between state where you can wait to be rezzed, release, or just wait until you come to.
Only, while "unconscious" you're also somewhat lootable. Perhaps looting the backpack but not body.
A little like EVE where you can destroy someone's ship but it's an extra step to pod them.
So you can mug someone and strip them of valuables, but leave them with their gear. Or finish them off and strip the body bare.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd love a Star Wars Galaxies "unconscious but not dead" state.
An in-between state where you can wait to be rezzed, release, or just wait until you come to.
Only, while "unconscious" you're also somewhat lootable. Perhaps looting the backpack but not body.A little like EVE where you can destroy someone's ship but it's an extra step to pod them.
So you can mug someone and strip them of valuables, but leave them with their gear. Or finish them off and strip the body bare.
First...I know this is not "D&D" or table top. But I used to like the
-10 rule. When you hit 0 you crumble. Each round was another -1 until -10 which equaled death. Would be a neat little mechanic that guys who are beat down, but not out could get a quick heal and be back on their feet...but young mage who only had 2 hp left is nothing but chunks after that half-orc rolled a critical with his battle axe.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Suit yourself.I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)Wow.... I actually went through several reactions to this, but I'll leave it with the most respectful.... "No second chances"..... "No Quarter Given, None Asked For".
It does, it suits me just fine. Honestly, how many chances do you expect to have to keep your loot?
Just for the sake of argument, what additional benefits should the bandit get for giving you a second chance?
At the very least it would have to be a portion of your threaded gear as well. That transfer would have to occur after you are revived and before you can move or defend yourself. Any sign of assistance on your behalf, arriving on the scene should cost you reputation at double the cost as if you violated a SAD.
Otherwise I'd just as soon as use the Deathknell ability, get whatever bonus that gives, and loot you for 75%.
As I said above, this Unconscious before death is great news for Good characters, and for Chaotic Evil characters (Deathknell), but for CN I don't really have an RP use for it.
I would also like to say I frankly dont want to have to spend to much time killing dead people when there are perfectly good live people to kill
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Goblin Squad Member
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Suit yourself.I was wondering if (without time pressures) that might be a primitive avenue for the bandit to SAD someone that is reluctant with a first request. Revive and offer then a 2nd chance to comply. :)Wow.... I actually went through several reactions to this, but I'll leave it with the most respectful.... "No second chances"..... "No Quarter Given, None Asked For".It does, it suits me just fine. Honestly, how many chances do you expect to have to keep your loot?
Just for the sake of argument, what additional benefits should the bandit get for giving you a second chance?
At the very least it would have to be a portion of your threaded gear as well. That transfer would have to occur after you are revived and before you can move or defend yourself. Any sign of assistance on your behalf, arriving on the scene should cost you reputation at double the cost as if you violated a SAD.
Otherwise I'd just as soon as use the Deathknell ability, get whatever bonus that gives, and loot you for 75%.
As I said above, this Unconscious before death is great news for Good characters, and for Chaotic Evil characters (Deathknell), but for CN I don't really have an RP use for it.
This was answered over two hours ago in another thread. Are you really that slow tonight? Here
Right around #958 or so. I made a retraction there about this post here. Get with it Man! It is the new way to do things!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes please!Yep, we have a dying state currently. The intention is that others can heal you while you're in it, and you might have feats (such as Diehard) that you can use at a steep cost to get yourself back up. Characters might also take Deathknell-style effects that kill a dying character for a bonus.I hope you can choose to void this dying state. Personally I have no wish to spend two minutes dying when I know I am not getting revived and would rather select die and respawn.
You should definitely be able to release as quickly as you want, with all the effects that would've occurred if you'd died after the timer expired.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As Tyncale said, GW2 actually did this pretty well. It took about 30 seconds for your character to struggle to revive after being defeated. During your defeated stage an enemy player could inflict a killing blow. It gave an option to subdue or kill outright. the outright kill should carry a much higher negative reaction than subdual.
GW2 actually did this pretty well. It took about 30 seconds for your character to struggle to revive after being defeated. During your defeated stage an enemy player could inflict a killing blow. It gave an option to subdue or kill outright. the outright kill should carry a much higher negative reaction than subdual.
In a game with reputation this is no good
I am on a rampage I knock you to unconsciousness
if I knock you unconscious, loot you, then deliver the killing blow I take this extra rep hit (example double value for arguments 2000)
If I I knock you unconscious, loot you then stand over your body ready to knock you down again if you are stupid enough to revive then I take the normal rep hit (from the example above 1000)
Why would I ever choose to do the first?
If I am a griefer doubly why would I ever choose to do the first?
The rep hit must therefore to my mind be on the being knocked unconscious part that way in the above example you take a 1000 for knocking someone unconscious then extra rep for standing over his body and knocking him down again if he revives.
Otherwise whether he revives or respawns you take the same rep hit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just for clarification:
As written so far, you take the rep hit for your second blow (intent) or for one blow if the target dies by another hand within 30 seconds.
Mercy will only be a matter of choice. It will not gain you anything (unless there are alignment factors undetailed), which is counter productive, IMO.
It would not work as a rep loss free way to rob someone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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if I knock you unconscious, loot you, then deliver the killing blow I take this extra rep hit (example double value for arguments 2000)
If I I knock you unconscious, loot you then stand over your body ready to knock you down again if you are stupid enough to revive then I take the normal rep hit (from the example above 1000)
Why would I ever choose to do the first?
There is currently no design for being able to loot someone before they're dead.
You will probably not be able to loot someone who is dying, if for no other reason than your body has not yet gone from character to object.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just for clarification:
As written so far, you take the rep hit for your second blow (intent) or for one blow if the target dies by another hand within 30 seconds.
Mercy will only be a matter of choice. It will not gain you anything (unless there are alignment factors undetailed), which is counter productive, IMO.
It would not work as a rep loss free way to rob someone.
So far, robbery in and of itself does not result in reputation loss. It is the physical assault (hitting twice) or the outright killing of a non sanctioned target that will result in reputation loss.
This however brings up a question about this new proposed system.
Will assault that does not lead to death cost less rep loss, than if the attacker follows through and kills the opponent?
1. If I attack you and do not bring you to a near death state, do I lose less rep than if I had reduced you to near death state?
2. If I attack you and bring you to near death state, what might the rep loss be? (in comparison to #1)
3. If I attack you and kill you. (We already have some detail of consequences with this)
4. If I attack you, bring you to near death state, then deathknell you, should the rep loss be greater than #3?
Finally,
If I attack and bring you to near death state, and I revive you should the system absolve the rep loss for making the attack?
Note: The victim always has the ability to release from the near death state, resulting in #3's consequences.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just for clarification:
As written so far, you take the rep hit for your second blow (intent) or for one blow if the target dies by another hand within 30 seconds.
Mercy will only be a matter of choice. It will not gain you anything (unless there are alignment factors undetailed), which is counter productive, IMO.
It would not work as a rep loss free way to rob someone.
So far, robbery in and of itself does not result in reputation loss. It is the physical assault (hitting twice) or the outright killing of a non sanctioned target that will result in reputation loss.
This however brings up a question about this new proposed system.
Will assault that does not lead to death cost less rep loss, than if the attacker follows through and kills the opponent?
1. If I attack you and do not bring you to a near death state, do I lose less rep than if I had reduced you to near death state?
2. If I attack you and bring you to near death state, what might the rep loss be? (in comparison to #1)
3. If I attack you and kill you. (We already have some detail of consequences with this)
4. If I attack you, bring you to near death state, then deathknell you, should the rep loss be greater than #3?
Finally,
If I attack and bring you to near death state, and I revive you should the system absolve the rep loss for making the attack?
Note: The victim always has the ability to release from the near death state, resulting in #3's consequences.
True. The system as it stands does not penalize rep simply for robbery. I suppose that it could be accomplished with pure intimidation by some, and against some. There is that, until SAD comes live.
It would be much more flexible if "the killing blow" or "voluntary release" gave the worst hit. A little incentive for mercy of some kind, and better general feelings all around. I have a feeling that most aggressors will just want your toon gone from the field, however, whether their intent was to loot you or not.
I am holding hope that we will start with a rep system of some sort, even if it is less "toothy" in the starter NPC city, that follows us until settlements come into play. Probably a bit of a wishful dream, but we will see.
The point I was making (badly it seems) is nothing to do with the robbery part.
I either knock you unconscious and stand over you so you end up having to opt to respawn
or
I knock you unconscious then deliver the killing blow causing you to respawn.
In both cases you end up having to respawn. If you offer me less rep loss for not delivering the killing blow why would I take option 2 ever as I can get exactly the same effect without losing the extra rep from the killing blow. This is why I argue that the rep loss has to be the same in both instances else all you do is incentivize unconscious body camping
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CEO, Goblinworks
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I honestly don't know what the designers intend for a release mechanic (I haven't asked them), but I'd be happy if you were forced to wait 30 seconds or so whilst the game went on around you. That's a reasonably effective "penalty" for dying that most players would endure but dislike.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The point I was making (badly it seems) is nothing to do with the robbery part.
I either knock you unconscious and stand over you so you end up having to opt to respawn
or
I knock you unconscious then deliver the killing blow causing you to respawn.
In both cases you end up having to respawn. If you offer me less rep loss for not delivering the killing blow why would I take option 2 ever as I can get exactly the same effect without losing the extra rep from the killing blow. This is why I argue that the rep loss has to be the same in both instances else all you do is incentivize unconscious body camping
Agreed. Nothing has been said about looting the unconscious. (not saying that had anything to do with your point) For my part I was responding to Bluddwolf mostly. I had an idea back up thread that was proven useless when I reread the blog.
It is all moot anyway, as the penalty comes with the blows (in all cases except turn bashing), not the results.
I hope that your father in law is doing better, btw.
I hope that someday bodies can be manipulated objects--even if you're just waiting for a rez. I can see the body of a general being chucked around during a pitched battle as his clerics try to reach him and the enemy plays keep-away.