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Hello everyone,
I am very new to Pathfinder and am trying to create a Wood Oracle for a "low magic" campaign. In this setting, magic items are rare and essentially level 5 spells are as high as you can go until higher character levels.
The reason that I want to build a Wood Oracle is that the revelations and spells seem like a really good way to make my own items and buffs in a world where a +2 or higher item is fairly rare. Additionally, there are some interesting RP items with the "Speak with Wood" and "Tree Form" revelations.
For the builds sake, I would like to plan something through Level 10 or higher, with a 25 point buy. I'm really new to the game, so I am kind of basing things off of other stuff I have read, but here are my thoughts:
Str>Con>Cha>Dex>Wis>Int
Str 18 (+2 human)
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14
I am really lost on Feats to take. My initial thoughts are that Wood Oracle revelations seem to give the most bang for the buck and it might be worth grabbing them as early as possible.
H - Power Attack
1 - Extra Revelation ( Wood Armor )
3 - Furious Focus
5 -
7 -
9 -
11-
13-
Revelations
1 - Wood Bond
3 - Wooden Weapon
7 - Tree Form
11- Speak with Wood
I know I'm not going to be as great as a true martial, but my thought was to create a decent combat character with a bit of utility. I also really like the idea at later levels being able to morph into a tree and create a club to beat on things. I know that technically you can't morph into a Treant until much higher levels, but I think my DM might allow me to use at least the "skin" of a Treant at lower levels. My question is what plant(s) would be good to change into? If I can give him some ideas, I think he'll work with me.
Additionally, I'd love some help on spells and skills. I know the Wood Oracle spells are pretty good (shillelagh, barkskin, tree stride) but I'd welcome any suggestions on other spells and skills to look at. Extra heals in the group would probably be welcomed, so I guess I need to keep that in mind.
Any help would be appreciated, as I am still learning a lot of this stuff. The only restrictions I have is nothing 3rd party.
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The bad news are that plant forms are generally weak, it is best to avoid them, at least as your in-combat buffs. Good news are that indeed a wood oracle is a great choice for a martial divine caster, especially in a low-magic campaign, it should work great.
The first thing I will suggest is to be an aasimar and take the alternative favored class bonus for the wood armor revelation. This + magic vestment will let you have excellent AC throught the game.
Second thing, if you want to optimise even further, start wit the racial heritage (half elf) feat, so that you can use paragorn surge. Then, take skill focus: any knowledge and eldrich heritage (arcane). This will give you access to a a familair, but more importantly by then you will be able to cast ANY arcane spell of your lvl by using paragorn surge and learning the improved eldrich heritage (arcane) feat.
The must have revelations are the Wood Bond, Wood Weapon and Wood Armor, and you should eventually take the Thorn Burst (swift action) and Speak with Wood.
You cannot have Power Attack at first lvl, it requires BAB +1. Take Improved Initiative instead. A great feat for anyone who want to buff himself before melee begins. Another must have feat at lvl 11 is Divine Interference.
You really want the Fate's Favored trait, along with divine favor it is a +2/+2 bonus to attack and damage right from lvl 1.
The point buy I would recommend:
Angelkin Aasimar
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 12
CHA 18
If you do not like Int 7, make it 8 and drop wisdom to 10. Or Int 10 and Wis 8, your choice.
At low lvls, using wood weapon for a quarterstaff with shillelagh is your best choice, bau after lvl six youc an alos use a longspear for reach. In this case I would consider to have combat reflexes by lvl 7 and prepare some Enlarge person. You will need to start with 14 Dex in order to work such tactic effectively, so I would recommend this stat array:
Angelkin Aasimar
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 16
Interesting. The paragon surge seems pretty crazy. That is too bad about the tree form. Fun idea. Bad mechanics I guess.
Anyone else have some ideas to help?
Wood oracle is, indeed, an excellent choice for your stated goal of being an effective martial divine caster. I've GMd for a couple, and they were both quite effective. You are going the same way.
XmorseX has some very solid suggestions, optimization-wise, for a martial divine caster. There are many different martial approaches (e.g. archery, sword & shield, grappler, polearm, mounted charger, et cetera). Shillelagh will serve you well at low levels, but eventually your revelation-generated longspear will be much better.
I'll add that Human is always a good option, too. You will be feat-starved, so the extra Human feat is great. Aasimar is slightly more optimized, but they are supposed to be rare ...
Also, resist the temptation to dip levels in any other class. You start a full caster. Stay a full caster. You have some terrific spells. Barkskin, Bull's Strength, Divine Favor, et al will serve your martial strivings well. Also, these effects are subtle and won't draw undue attention. Mechanically, your fully buffed combat ability will be roughly double your un-buffed combat ability.
I'm looking at a Wood Oracle like XMORSeX mentioned - Angelkin and crazy good Wood Armor - and I found one possible fun way to spend a couple feats is Cornugon Smash (intimidate for free when power attacking). Its a pretty great way to be a scary presence on the battlefield, and a melee oracle is a natural choice for Cornugon Smash - you've got some charisma already, and you can pick up Intimidating Prowess to add your strength to your intimidate on top of that plus a trait to grab intimidate as a class skill.
There's some fun potential synergy with the Instrument of Agony spell too: cast beforehand (min/level) for +2 to your intimidate checks, and when the time is right discharge the spell as a free action on a hit to throw a will-save-or-nauseated effect on your enemy (who is already suffering a shaken save penalty). Cruel weapons will also sicken a shaken foe for double the suffering as a possible option.
My character would use a Great Terbutje for flavor, but if you use a longspear and reach tactics you could be demoralizing enemies all over the place.
Do you know what the rest of you party will play? If there is a bard you will have the "problem" that inspire courage and wood bond don't stack.
Umbranus wrote: Do you know what the rest of you party will play? If there is a bard you will have the "problem" that inspire courage and wood bond don't stack. It's not really that big of a deal. You would still get the morale bonus to saves from it, and the competence bonus to damage, since wood bond only affects to-hit. IC is limited rounds per day anyway.
Ciroth wrote: I am very new to Pathfinder and am trying to create a Wood Oracle for a "low magic" campaign. In this setting, magic items are rare and essentially level 5 spells are as high as you can go until higher character levels. Ummm, when you say "higher character levels" what do you mean? 11th? That's when you'd get 6th level spells anyways, so what do you mean here?
The group is rather large but made up almost entirely of martial characters:
2x Inquisitor
Polearm fighter
Tower shield fighter
Gunslinger
Barbarian
Cleric (fully focused on healing)
We are playing in a world based on "Warhammer." Magic and magic items are pretty limited and dangerous in this setting. The magic rules are kind of weird:
Level 1-5 you are caster level 1-5 and get the appropriate spells known and spells per day
Level 6-10 you remain caster level 5 (no new spells)
Other abilities, such as hexes or channeling go up normally
Level 11-15 you are caster level 6-10 (new spells know and daily)
Level 16-20 you are caster level 10
Basically, you are capped at caster level 10
I know that the group is pretty one dimensional, but with very little magic, it keeps things simple, fun, and fast. With this group, it is better to kind of go with the flow, but I wanted to bring something that had a bit more utility and could essentially make it's own magic items.
Find out your dm's position on a few things.
1) Whether you can cast Magic Vestment on the wood armor
2) The Plant Form thing is potentially very powerful. But you guys need to discuss how it works beforehand.
a) Will he make you lose the Wood Armor if you shift into Treant form? This is kind of dumb, because you can immediately resummon it. The only loss is that if you can use Magic Vestment, you would have to cast it again. Although as I understand it, if you cast it WHILE you were a Treant with Wood Armor, you would keep it if you went to human form. So potentially you could wake up, turn into a tree summon your Wood Armor and cast Magic Vestment on it, and you are good to go.
Me personally I would just rule that you keep your armor and weapon if you started out as human, then went to tree form.
b) Most people seem to think Treants (thought this was the best plant form for combat) wouldn't keep your weapon upon changing shape (though things like Giants apparently do). Find out what the DM thinks about Wood Bond affecting a Treant's natural attacks.
I might add you could always summon a Wood Weapon if you take that Revelation if you are in Treant form.
It's a pity no one in that martial-heavy group has Inspire Courage (aka Bardsong). That single buff (available to Evangelist Clerics and Bards) would boost the group more than anything else. I count seven martial characters, each with multiple attacks. Even low level +1 +1 Inspire Courage would increase total party damage by more than 15 points per round.
@OP When the first character dies you might suggest that the replacement bring Inspire Courage to the table. It would be a huge contribution to party effectiveness.
So you are going to be stuck with level 2 spells until you are level 11?
This is going to end badly for everyone unless the DM has adjusted challenges to account for lack of spells and items. With such a slipshod approach to crippling casters without giving anything to make up for the lack of spells, I doubt he has. But this is warhammer, so players are expected to die frequently so it's ok *rolls eyes*
Ciroth wrote: Hello everyone,
I am very new to Pathfinder and am trying to create a Wood Oracle for a "low magic" campaign. In this setting, magic items are rare and essentially level 5 spells are as high as you can go until higher character levels.
The reason that I want to build a Wood Oracle is that the revelations and spells seem like a really good way to make my own items and buffs in a world where a +2 or higher item is fairly rare. Additionally, there are some interesting RP items with the "Speak with Wood" and "Tree Form" revelations.
For the builds sake, I would like to plan something through Level 10 or higher, with a 25 point buy. I'm really new to the game, so I am kind of basing things off of other stuff I have read, but here are my thoughts:
Str>Con>Cha>Dex>Wis>Int
Str 18 (+2 human)
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14
I am really lost on Feats to take. My initial thoughts are that Wood Oracle revelations seem to give the most bang for the buck and it might be worth grabbing them as early as possible.
H - Power Attack
1 - Extra Revelation ( Wood Armor )
3 - Furious Focus
5 -
7 -
9 -
11-
13-
Revelations
1 - Wood Bond
3 - Wooden Weapon
7 - Tree Form
11- Speak with Wood
I know I'm not going to be as great as a true martial, but my thought was to create a decent combat character with a bit of utility. I also really like the idea at later levels being able to morph into a tree and create a club to beat on things. I know that technically you can't morph into a Treant until much higher levels, but I think my DM might allow me to use at least the "skin" of a Treant at lower levels. My question is what plant(s) would be good to change into? If I can give him some ideas, I think he'll work with me.
Additionally, I'd love some help on spells and skills. I know the Wood Oracle spells are pretty good (shillelagh, barkskin, tree stride) but I'd welcome any suggestions on other spells and skills to look at. Extra heals in the group would probably be...
No magic items is hard you need chr, for spells and revelations. Con for HPs, Dex for AC and initiative etc etc
Without stat boosters and such you will struggle if you make a strength build.
I recommend archery (its superior) and the main stat dex helps in more areas and as not melee needs less hps, healing, and chance you need the high level spells. Not to mention its all about WOOD baby !!!
12,16,14,10,10,15
1. Point Blank, 3. Precise
gives you +1 hit and damage at 1st (better than wood bond)
Start with a long spear = +2/d8+3
When you get a comp. longbow = +3/d8+2 at range (pre-divine favor.. and with range you can afford to cast instead of move)
Half-elf as get access to paragon surge AND the elves (see errata half-elf can take elf stuff) ancient lore keeper oracle archetype for some wizard spells (acid splash, gravity bow, named bullet
1st revelation (armour)
Half-Elf due to errata favored class oracle bonus of +1/2 to a revelation.
I suggest spend it all on the armour revelation. You cannot go wrong.
The normal progression will become:
1st: +4 AC
5th: +6 AC
8th: +8 AC
9th: DR 5/slashing (great vs other archers/gunmen)
10th: +10AC
13th: +12AC
With your dex focus your AC will be the best in the game. Not to mention bark skin and magic vestment which adds. Dex also helps initiative and touch ac.
Knowl(local)always handy,heal(can heal and cure non-magically now, diplomacy and (cross classed) perception should sort you.
Your to hit will be fine, at 7th get wood bond for the boost to keep up, at 3rd get Thorn Burst.
Tree form is a trap(you cannot cast OR probably speak if the bestiary entries are anything to go on).
Wood Weapon also.
1. Is it really that hard to find a piece of wood? or not have one?
2. Remember your a caster with great buffs - as ancestral is a physical weapon you can always cast 'Magic Weapon, Greater' and at 1 hour per level (highest enchantment counts) your ancestral weapon will always be better than a straight revelation weapon or a favored class weapon.
With wooden weapon its a auto loose. Others magic weapons (most will find a +1 by 5th or 7th), or due to weapon bond or arcane pool or/and black blade or blade thirst or inquisitors bane etc are all ahead (5+ levels ahead) worse they make your wood weapon look almost common- and you can cast shillelagh if you need : +1 hit, +3 damage effectively which you don't get with wood weapon till 15th level and they don't stack cause shillelagh only works on non magic .. BLEH.
Why is archery better?
In no particular order
As melle:
1. Str to damage: "Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost." - really is 100 gp an issue? one or two encounters sorts that out and if you really cannot wait there is a trait: "Rich Parents = 900 gp."
2. Power attack aka deadly aim.
3. 2 weapon fighting aka rapid shot.
4. Weapon bonuses as usual.
5. mastery/specialization/smite/judgement/spells etc whatever your flavor of extra damage is..
AND what melee can only dream of (or make cookie cutter builds to get)
Archery
6. Full attacks first round of combat and vs better positioned and flying etc opponents.
7. Extra attack for free aka multi-shot (thats sweet with existing damage and your extra damage below ... its an extra multiple for all that damage).
8. Point Blank (extra +1 hit and damage).
9. Braces of Archery (extra +2 hit and +1 damage) till then cheapish braces of the falcons aim for +1 hit and 19-20/x3 crits. Elves and half-elves olsoget special racial items that add in the racial book.
10. Ignore cover and concealment aka Improved Precise Shot.
11. Easy DR penetration (couple arrows of each type is cheap and easier then a couple weapons of each type).
12. Easy bane (10 arrows of each of the bane type arrows for bosses is well affordable sooner or later).
etc
and it boosts AC and initiative!
How would that half elf archer look with 20 point build?
thenovalord wrote: How would that half elf archer look with 20 point build? STR 14 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14
With Woodbond and the above stat array you could also function as a switch hitter of sorts. For PFS I'd go Human instead of Half ORc and pick up Longbow proficiency with the Hunter's Eye Trait from the Andoran Faction. The extra feat will help a lot.
1 PBS, Rapid Shot
3 Precise Shot
5 Deadly Aim
Covers your archery basics...Then again a Half Elf can take the Elf FCB.
Paragon Surge makes up for the missed feat at 4th level (and adds 2 stat points).
Wizard spells are worth the extra feat as well. Acid splash with point blank shot is pretty reliable damage to start with. Wizard spells get better from there. Gravity bow alone is amazing d8 to 2d6.
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Have made half elf (drow) wood Oracle (ancient lore keeper) lvl 7 to replace a pc in carrion crown.
Feels suitable gothic.
To answer some of the questions:
-All of the encounters have been designed to take into account the lower magic level. For the most part, it hasn't been an issues just due to the size of the party.
-The DM is ok with letting armor scale up if you go into tree form. Appropriately sized weapons would have to be made with wooden weapon. In the setting we are in, walking/talking tree shapes of different sizes are not unheard of.
-The ranged build seems like an interesting variation and something we really don't have in the group. Although, it does minimize the usefulness of a number of the Wood Oracle revelations. It might be better to use a different mystery at that point (Ancestor?).
-I have thought about playing a Buff/Debuff Witch (scar, fortune/misfortune) or a Bard. Your comments have me rethinking that. I don't really have any experience in either, so I'd have to make a new post.
Wood archers make THE best archers. Ancestor or does not.
All the wood oracle stuff works well for archery - controlling others wooden weapons, questioning others bows or the arrows they shoot at you .. or just chatting to your bow, having an AC bonus for when things get close is well worth it. Never mind its armour that ignores any dex limits which is super for any dex focused character (like an archer).
Archers are also good in a larger party - no need to struggle to get some face in melee.
Plant forms are unnecessary and create equipment and casting issues.
insaneogeddon wrote: Wood archers make THE best archers. In a normal magic world I would not agree to that.
Some of the best magic items for archers give a competence bonus that doesn't stack with the wood bond bonus. For example the bracers of falcon's aim.
divine favour costs you a round to buff and has a too short a duration to cast before combat unless you know the enemy is behind the next door. Besides there is no reason not to combine bracers of falcon's aim with divine favour. So what's the point in calling it better?
Why mentioned anyway beats me, just goin with flow.
Divine Favor is easy enough (if you bother to quicken/extend/divination or just scout) and a bigger mod.
Wood bond exceeds the braces anyway AND you can still get the cheap bracers for the crit modifying effect so there is NO loss ..
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