This is my first time playing a fighter or a paladin. I will have to be very durable and do quite a bit of damage to make up for our smaller then average team.
I can't go archery since I need to be in the thick of things.
The variance in playstyles, feat choices, and items is makin my head spin, so is appreciate a good starting place for a level 1 fighter or paladin.
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I'd say the first step is deciding Fighter or Paladin. One has lots and lots of feats, including ones that only Fighters get. The other has lots of special abilities, some healing, some casting, better protection against the evils of the world but more abilities to manage and track and consider.
Next, what kind of play style do you want? Unarmed (it works reasonably well for a fighter, actually)? Sword and Board? Two-handed weapon? Two one-handed weapons? Light crit-focused weapons? Double weapon (for style, not actually useful functionality mind you)? Do you want to focus on combat maneuvers? Then there are the odd ones, like Board and Board, Spiked Armored Ambassador of Free Hugs, Sword and whatever weapon the other guy has because I'm all about disarming.
In other words: Where on the spectrum of Damage and Defense do you want to be? And how mobile do you want to be? And how much do you want to heal others? Do mounted combat rules make your head hurt?
What's the current party make-up? Do you already have a barbarian? Is it just a party of squishy spell casters? Do you have to babysit the rogue so he isn't accidentally eaten while stabbing someone in the back? Is there no one else to handle healing? Do you expect to be all alone in the middle of the fight?
You can look at the Fighter archetypes to get an idea of the options there. The nice thing is that the feats more or less pick themselves once you pick a flavor of Fighter. Paladins are more complex but even they have several paths to take and it usually depends more on the group make-up and how much you like shields vs big weapons.
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I advocate paladin
go 2handed paladin its the easiest to learn and one of the more effective ones.
stats would look like
20 pt buy human
Str: 18 (16+2)
Dex:12
Con:12
Int:8
Wis:8
Cha:16
traits
armor master
reactionary
Feats
1-fey foundling, power attack
3- Cleave
5- greater mercy
7- weapon focus Greatsword
9- and just what fits your fancy really.
I was looking at the TWFshield and sword fighter with improved shield bash
Or
A reach paladin.
If you have a small party a paladin is probably the better choice. They may do less damage then the fighter (except when fighting evil), but they have a lot better survivability. In a larger party you can probably count on others for buffs and protections, but in a small party you may not have that luxury.
The Paladin has a huge advantage of survivability over the fighter. Better saves and immunities means he will be a lot harder to take out of the fight. The paladin’s ability to heal as a swift action is going to keep you alive and fighting when the fighter is dead or dying. If the primary healer is down being able to bring him back up so he can heal the group is a very important thing.
The switch hitter ranger can do both ranged and melee combat so that is also an option.
A 20pt. Buy Human Paladin with Oath of Vengeance and a Reach Weapon.
Str- 17(15+2(Human))bump at all levels.
Dex- 14(3 AoOs per round)
Con- 14(favored class bonus for HP's)
Int- 10(Human will net you 3 SP/Level, good enough)
Wis- 7 (Not really needed since you get a bump to saves at 2nd)
Cha- 14(Boost with Items)
FEATS(Suggestions)
H-Power Attack
1-Combat Reflexes
3-Furious Focus
5-Extra Lay on Hands
TRAITS(Suggestions)
Armor Expert
Reactionary
OR
Something to boost Will saves, just because.
reach paladins are less than lack luster due to making the class a MAD class. normaly you really only need Str and Cha mostly, but if you add dex...
Still doable if you get a decent point-buy, i.e. 15 or higher. Do note that having a reach weapon may decrease the amount of hits you get and thus make constitution less of a priority. With 20 points you can get something like 18 in strength, 12/13 in constitution/dexterity and 14 in charisma.
@ Ezrider - a decent start, though I'd go with Stand still instead of extra LoH. Preventing an enemy from getting to you - or anyone else behind you - can be pretty handy. Preventing them from getting away, even more so.
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stand still doesn't work with reach weapons, read it again, IIRC they must attempt to move through a square beside you.
When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity. If successful, the enemy cannot move for the rest of his turn. An enemy can still take the rest of his action, but cannot move. This feat also applies to any creature that attempts to move from a square that is adjacent to you if such movement provokes an attack of opportunity.
Yeah, i haven't come across any really good "defender" feats for a reach wielder. Stand Still is no good as is the Step up line. It really comes down positioning and tactics. Extra Lay on Hands will get you more smites as an Oath Pally.
If you are going to drop your CON due to working at reach, doable for the durable Pally, i would suggest pumping your INT to try for Unsanctioned Knowledge and/or Learned(?).
I'd love to hear suggestions for defender type feats for reach weapons.
edit
And while i'm at it my initial point buy was off by 2.
To bump you INT you could go for 15+2/14/12/13/8/14 as a Human.
Make a fighter or your dm will be here in a week talking about you falling lol fighter does more damage I think and double the feats of exerybody else
I like Bodyguard and Helpful for those times when the spacing just doesn't work out for AoOs vs. the enemy.
Pin Down is pretty sweet for a reach wielder to bad it is fighter only. I'll be slapping it on my fighter, if i ever get to that level.
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Bodyguard is also limited use with a reach build as well. You have to be adjacent to your ally and in position to attack the target, which means that if the target is also adjacent to you, you are limited to IUS/Gauntlet/Armor Spikes AoOs, if your DM isn't iffy on them. And if you are not adjacent to the target, but are adjacent to ally, then your ally may well be providing cover for the enemy (since reach weapons use the ranged combat rules for determining cover) and you cannot make AoOs against a target that has cover from to you. Again, kind of limiting in the defense arena for reach combat, unfortunately.
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Bodyguard is also limited use with a reach build as well. You have to be adjacent to your ally and in position to attack the target
I don't believe this is settled. Most times I've seen it come up the GM rules it the other way. Perhaps incorrectly. I'd love to see a FAQ on this. Your interpretation certainly renders Bodyguard worthless (for both reach and non-reach weapon wielders), but the other interpretation leaves it a useful, but certainly not over-powered, feat.
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Bodyguard states, "Benefit: When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally's AC.".
Aid another states, "If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action."
I am not seeing where the debate is, the rules are very clearly written.
The feat has a specific positioning requirement and allows you to perform an specific action. That specific action has set requirements.
There is no reason what so ever to assume that the requirements to perform Aid Another do not apply when using Bodyguard, especially when the feat does have one specific change to the Aid Another action addressed.
"Normal: Aid another is a standard action."
It doesn't say anywhere that the feat removes the other requirements of Aid Another, so there is no reason to assume it does.
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I don't see how they think someone with reach has to be adjacent to the enemy. If he is within reach (can hit the sod) the feat works, if he can't hit the sod. The feat doesn't work.
That is not the issue, read the description of the abilities at hand.
You must be adjacent to YOUR ALLY.
You must be in position to attack the TARGET.
The problem with a reach weapon using this feat becomes a matter of positioning.
B=Bodyguard
A=Ally
X=Enemy
XXXX
XBAX
XXXX
The bold Xs are targets that are in range for the reach weapon of B, however, according to the rules for cover, A is providing soft cover to them all and therefor B cannot make AoOs against them.
The problem is not the feat, but the cover rules as they pertain to reach attacks and the rules on cover and Attacks of Opportunity.
XXX
XAX
BXX
In this case the bold Xs are what B can attack with his reach weapon, but once again by the cover rules, the targets are granted cover and therefore not able to be targeted for AoOs from B. The italicized Xs would be valid targets if the unaltered Xs are actually empty squares.
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Because Pathfinder favors offense over defense, I like to start my fighters with a level of Urban Barbarian (to be followed by a second level later).
One nice thing about being able to rage is the Furious weapon quality. A +3 Furious weapon functions as a +5 weapon when raging. That's a saving of 18,000 GPs.