We have a power gamer who likes to interpret all rules in his favor, so when he used his ability to smite evil on an object I was doubtful.
I went back to my book (2nd printing) and read the smite evil section it begins by using the label "target" but later uses the label "creatures". The rules also state that smite lasts until the target is dead. This leads me to think that objects are not suitable targets for smite evil.
Has there been an errata that allows paladins to use smite evil against objects and bypass hardness, similar to creatures and bypassing DR?
A paladin that smites an evil item seems legit to me.
But he still can't bypass an objects hardness. Or he can, if you let him as a DM.
We have a power gamer who likes to interpret all rules in his favor, so when he used his ability to smite evil on an object I was doubtful.
I went back to my book (2nd printing) and read the smite evil section it begins by using the label "target" but later uses the label "creatures". The rules also state that smite lasts until the target is dead. This leads me to think that objects are not suitable targets for smite evil.
Has there been an errata that allows paladins to use smite evil against objects and bypass hardness, similar to creatures and bypassing DR?
Smite says evil "creatures" and it says it overcomes "DR". DR is not hardness and objects are not creatures. An object that is evil with hardness 2000000 can not have that hardness overcome by a +5 aligned weapon, smite, holy weapons, or anything that specifically calls out DR. Your player is wrong.
Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.
So, based on the description it appears that an object could be a valid target. But, the object would need to be an evil object to be affected at all. If the object is evil (unlikely) the paladin could get the damage bonus against it and would bypass any DR it has, of course objects don't normally have DR they have hardness instead. Which Smite doesn't bypass.
Of course, a sensible person is aware that Smite Evil is intended to apply to creatures only.
Edit: It does say "target" not creature, but by objects have hardness so it does not really matter.
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That reminds me, when I attack an object with my +1 Holy Adamantine Stinging Whip I keep asking the GM if it is evil, thus giving me the +2d6 Holy damage to it. For some strange reason, the object never seem to be evil. (But I still bypass it's hardness due to the Adamantine.)
Objects do not have alignment, with the exception of some magical items.
That reminds me, when I attack an object with my +1 Holy Adamantine Stinging Whip I keep asking the GM if it is evil, thus giving me the +2d6 Holy damage to it. For some strange reason, the object never seem to be evil. (But I still bypass it's hardness due to the Adamantine.)
Objects do not have alignment, with the exception of some magical items.
I'm assuming the first part of your post is semi-joke correct?
That not withstanding, yeah. 99% of objects don't have an evil alignment. Why? Because they're just objects. I don't even think an object with "evil" abilities would technically count, it would pretty much need to be an intelligent object with an evil alignment for smite to work on it. Because otherwise, the object is neutral. Maybe, objects that radiate an evil aura due to the Unholy property or specific weapons like the Nine Lives Stealer it would also function against. In any event, I think it's going to be a very short list that it works on.
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That reminds me, when I attack an object with my +1 Holy Adamantine Stinging Whip I keep asking the GM if it is evil, thus giving me the +2d6 Holy damage to it. For some strange reason, the object never seem to be evil. (But I still bypass it's hardness due to the Adamantine.)
Objects do not have alignment, with the exception of some magical items.
I'm assuming the first part of your post is semi-joke correct?
That not withstanding, yeah. 99% of objects don't have an evil alignment. Why? Because they're just objects. I don't even think an object with "evil" abilities would technically count, it would pretty much need to be an intelligent object with an evil alignment for smite to work on it. Because otherwise, the object is neutral. Maybe, objects that radiate an evil aura due to the Unholy property or specific weapons like the Nine Lives Stealer it would also function against. In any event, I think it's going to be a very short list that it works on.
Yes, the first part is a semi-joke, I never actually think the objects are evil.
I wouldn't even call objects Neutral, they just don't have an alignment because it is an object not a creature.
Just to ask a question, what about the necrostruct from Louis James Porter, Jr. designs? It's a neutral evil construct so would Smite Evil work against it?
Just to ask a question, what about the necrostruct from Louis James Porter, Jr. designs? It's a neutral evil construct so would Smite Evil work against it?
A construct is a creature, not an object. So, if it's an evil creature, it's an evil creature. And smite works just fine.
A construct is an animated object or artificially created creature. A construct has the following features.
Right, but he can get the to hit and damage bonus, we agree on that right? If the evil sword is being wielded by an antagonist, would we agree the Paladin gets the smite AC bonus against those attacks?How about trying to Smite sunder an Evil intelligent sword?Smite may bypass DR, but it does diddly against hardness.
If by this question, you are asking if a non-evil creature happens to be wielding an evil sword does the smite bonus apply to the creature? No. What if the creature is evil? No. Not unless the Paladin spends a Smite against the creature. So, an evil weapon wielded by someone that is Smote by a Paladin will take extra damage assuming the Paladin makes a sunder attempt on it and the paladin would get the bonus to hit on the sunder. It otherwise wouldn't help him offensively against the creature.
As to whether he gets the AC bonus....I don't know. I'd probably allow it just because it's a pretty obscure and unlikely use.
How about trying to Smite sunder an Evil intelligent sword?Smite may bypass DR, but it does diddly against hardness.
It is true that they have an entire lengthy section on items that could theoretically be evil, and possibly possess weak willed users.
An interesting question: let's say you are fighting a possessed invulnerable rager barbarian. The item controlling him is CE, but the barbarian is NG. Since the item is the one in control, could you use smite evil on the barbarian, and thus bypass his DR?
Is it an evil petting zoo?
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Would a smiting paladin gain the bonus damage when performing a sunder attack upon equipment held/worn by an evil opponent, even if that bonus damage doesn't ignore hardness?
And would the answer be different if the first attack of the smite was the sunder?
Personally, I'd say yes to the former, and no to the latter.
EDIT:
Another question would be does the smite end if the sunder successfully destroys a piece of equipment. I'd say, no.
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Right, but if the paladin declares smite on the CE barbarian, I'm saying he should get the bonus damage whether he's performing a 'white' attack on the barbarian's person directly, or if he's sundering equipment worn/carried by the barbarian, since the barbarian is a legal smite target. Should he shatter the evil barbarian's weapon, the smite doesn't end because the barbarian was the target.
Right, but if the paladin declares smite on the CE barbarian, I'm saying he should get the bonus damage whether he's performing a 'white' attack on the barbarian's person directly, or if he's sundering equipment worn/carried by the barbarian, since the barbarian is a legal smite target. Should he shatter the evil barbarian's weapon, the smite doesn't end because the barbarian was the target.
If you're targetting someone who is evil with Smite, then it works like Smite normally does. So yes, you can sunder their equipment and get your bonuses against them, but the question was about a non-evil creature wielding a evil weapon.