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Hey there!
My group will soon face two Ogres. Nothing special so far. They are all Level 4, so I think just two Ogres are and easy Encounter.
'Cause I want to stay with the two Ogres, I'd like to give them Class Levels. I determined their roles (something like smashing things...) and went to the next step of this advancement: Adjusting Ability Scores!
Creatures getting Class Levels really should get an adjustment of +4/+4/+2/+2/0/-2 ?
Isn't this a bit over the top? I really can't figure out, if this adjustment is needed - does anyone have experienced with that?
Also how much Levels would you think is okay? What Levels would you give to them?
[Group is an Oracle (spellcaster/buffing, debuffing), Rogue (Knife Master), Barbarian (2Handed or axe + board) and Ranger (archer)]
Thank you in advance!
Ogre Fighters or Barbarians can be a really savage beat-stick. A raging ogre can put down some serious hurt, and a tanked up armor hulk ogre can be surprisingly resilient.
An ogre Rogue or Ranger could make the party weep when a hulking brute lurches from the shadows and sneak attacks with a heavy pick or axe.
Spellcasting classes aren't ideal for ogres, (they rarely have the mental scores to support high level castings or good spell save DCs) but it can provide for an interesting surprise for the PCs who are probably expecting beat-stick ogres.
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
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Ogres can make decent scarred witches!
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Okay, thanks so far.
I'd like to hear some opinions about the ability score adjustment.
If you give the right classes to the right monsters, it can escalate very quickly - but giving them even better abilities seems kinda unbalanced.
Where does this come from? Even one level of Barbarian would give an Ogre 29 STR while raging. With better weapons, like martial ones, they shouldn't be just 1 CR more, or am I wrong?
I am afraid the Ogres will one-shot a party member with a full attack...
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Two things:
1. The ability adjustments come from the presumption that PC classed individuals and monsters are a cut above NPC classed individuals and warriors and have a higher CR adjustment. An orc fighter is higher CR than an orc warrior the same level and the one feat difference is not enough to justify that. Therefore the stats change to PC level as well. The same is true for ogres.
If you think about it in terms of what the class gives the monster mechanically, it usually makes more sense. Is +1 BAB and an extra 5.5+con hp worth +1 CR? Absolutely not. Increased stats are supposed to make up the rest of the difference.
This does point to a way out for you. If you want the flexibility of class advancement without the attribute bonuses, you can add warrior levels instead of fighter or barbarian. You get more of them for the same CR but they don't increase the monsters stats. That would yield more durable monsters that hang around longer and deal their damage more reliably over more rounds giving the PCs a chance to catch up with damage through healing.
2. You're right to worry that the monsters could one-shot party members. To some degree, that potential is what makes the combat interesting. But you don't want that to be especially likely to happen in what is essentially a random encounter.
If you want to minimize the potential for dead PCs while still using PC classes, here are a few things to consider:
A. No one says you have to apply the stat bonuses in the same order. +0 (or +2) to Str and +4 Con and +4 Dex and +2 Wis will make the ogres tougher without making them as deadly as putting the +4 in strength.
B. Feat choices can also be used to maximize survivability rather than killing power. A previous poster recommended Power Attack which is great for scariness because it increases the potential to one-shot PCs. If, on the other hand, you go for Iron Will or Blindfight to reduce the chance that they are made non-threatening by Glitterdust, you have an encounter that is still challenging but more predictable (and less likely to one-shot a PC).
C. Equipment choices can also affect how the encounter plays out. Having the ogre use a regular club and heavy shield rather than a greatclub will make the ogre less likely to one-shot a PC but make the ogres harder for the PCs to take down. But even if you don't do that, sticking with a greatclub rather than switching to a greataxe or ogre hook (2d8 damage for a large one--why is there a medium ogre hook in the chart?) keeps the deadliness at a reasonable level. Making NPCs and villains is an opportunity to use the flavorful but suboptimal weapons and armor that litter the pathfinder charts. Who uses a greatclub (or a club)? Primitive ogre barbarians who don't have the skills/society/technology to make better weapons.
D. One other possibility if you want to keep high damage, scary ogres but also want to minimize the chance of killing a PC outright with a full attack: give the ogres the bludgeoner (which should work nicely with their default greatclub) and enforcer feats, up their charisma with the +2 or even a +4 stat boost (dump Int instead) and have them deal non-lethal damage (no penalty due to Bludgeoner) for the free intimidate check to keep the PCs shaken. Then on the off chance the ogres do win, you can have them boil the PCs alive in a giant cauldron or give several PCs the opportunity to slip their bonds and escape while the ogres rip their (randomly chosen) companion apart and eat him raw.