Dazing Explosive Runes

[seebs]

Do you get a will save to avoid the daze if you were at point-blank range, and thus got no save, or does the fact that explosive runes does allow a save in general mean that you don't get the will save?

[Archaeik]

Since Explosive Runes denies a normal saving throw (under specific circumstances), the dazing effect receives the will save described in the Dazing Spell feat.

In short, the effect of Dazing Spell should always receive a saving throw.

[andreww]

The daze from Dazing Spell always allows a save. If the spell it is attached to allows a save then use that. If it doesn't then make a will save.

If the person is next to the runes when they detonate they would take the damage and get a will save to avoid the daze. If they are caught in the blast radius then the reflex save against the damage would avoid the daze.

[seebs]

I have a theoretical question here, but it appears to have been based on a false premise.

But I'll ask anyway: Imagine that we're in the parallel universe where you don't get a reflex save when paralyzed. Would you then get a will save to avoid being dazed by a dazing fireball, because you didn't get your reflex save?

What I'm trying to distinguish here is "this spell allows a save, but for some reason you can't take it" and "this spell does not allow a save". Except that apparently my recollection about helpless characters was wrong.

[Archaeik]

In your example, the spell does offer a save, Reflex, which you are prevented from taking. In rules terms, what you suggest would probably be worded as "automatically fail".

The point is kind of moot though as saving throws require no action, and I don't know of any way to deny one. Regardless, RAW only worries about the spell offering a save, not your ability to receive it.