Many questions mostly on monk(Brass knuckles, amulet of mighty fists etc)


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

So ill just list the questions I need some official rulings on these if you can link me to them.

1st is can a monk use his unarmed damage with brass knuckles instead of the d3 and do they count as unarmed strikes.

2nd is does amulet of mighty fists or body wrap of mighty strikes stack with brass knuckles if they count as unarmed strikes. Ie would a +1 brass knuckle and +1 body wrap be +2.

3rd can you put the agile property on an amulet of mighty fists the person im having the argument with on this one claims that you cannot do so because agile states that "Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive." and your fists cannot be made to be well balanced.

Thank you and any errata or faq you can link me to would be appreciated. I have looked through all i could find and was unable to find definitives.

Sczarni

I am not familiar with Brass Knuckles, so I'll let someone else answer that first part, but I can tell you with some certainty that a +1 Amulet and a set of +1 Brass Knuckles would not stack to become +2. At the very least these are both "enhancement" bonuses, and the only "typed" bonuses that stack are racial, circumstance, and dodge.

You can absolutely put the Agile property on an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Not sure of any argument that could be used against it. Why do they think you cannot?


1) No. They are light weapons. Older editions of the APG said you could. It's been changed since in Ultimate Equipment, which is the current version of the weapon.

2) This question is irrelevant given the above answer, but just in case your GM decides to houserule the brass knuckles to work the way they did in the original APG: No, they wouldn't stack, because the bonus the AoMF gives you is an enhancement bonus and the bonus +1 brass knuckles gives you is an enhancement bonus. Same bonus type means they don't stack.

3) Absolutely, and with an AoMF you don't even need to put a +1 on it first. Your friend is mistaking flavor text for rules. The agile property is a +1 ability and any +1 ability can be put on an AoMF unless it wouldn't work with unarmed strikes, such as for example the keen ability (which requires a piercing or slashing weapon).

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Branden Voss wrote:

1) can a monk use his unarmed damage with brass knuckles instead of the d3 and do they count as unarmed strikes.

2) does amulet of mighty fists or body wrap of mighty strikes stack with brass knuckles if they count as unarmed strikes.

3) can you put the agile property on an amulet of mighty fists

1) No, you use Brass Knuckles damage.

2) No, it applies to Natural Weapons or Unarmed Strike.

3) Yes you can have a Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists for the cost of a +1 AoMF.


Branden Voss wrote:

So ill just list the questions I need some official rulings on these if you can link me to them.

1st is can a monk use his unarmed damage with brass knuckles instead of the d3 and do they count as unarmed strikes.

No. Brass knuckles are light weapons, you cannot use unarmed strike damage with weapons without special abilities.

Branden Voss wrote:
2nd is does amulet of mighty fists or body wrap of mighty strikes stack with brass knuckles if they count as unarmed strikes. Ie would a +1 brass knuckle and +1 body wrap be +2.

No, for the reasons above. Always remember, like bonuses do not stack, as a general rule (untyped and dodge bonuses being the exception). So as both the bodywraps and the amulet confer enhancement bonuses, only the highest applicable bonus is used. However, if they have different properties these can stack. As can the properties from deliquescent gloves...

Branden Voss wrote:
3rd can you put the agile property on an amulet of mighty fists the person im having the argument with on this one claims that you cannot do so because agile states that "Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive." and your fists cannot be made to be well balanced.

Yes. agile can be placed on any weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with, and you can use Weapon Finesse with unarmed strikes which, like natural weapons, count as light weapons for the purposes of this feat. Arguably, your fists are the most balanced weapons you can have...balancing any other weapon comes down to moving it's centre of gravity as close to your grip as possible, for your fist it's a done deal.

Liberty's Edge

Thank you for the brass knuckles do you have an official dev word saying you cannot? The person still claims that because it says it allows you to do lethal damage with unarmed strike with it that it counts as unarmed and you can use the damage from monk.


Branden Voss wrote:
Thank you for the brass knuckles do you have an official dev word saying you cannot? The person still claims that because it says it allows you to do lethal damage with unarmed strike with it that it counts as unarmed and you can use the damage from monk.

Yes, sadly. Plenty of it.

The reasoning.

Spoiler:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

The brass knuckles problem stems from the Core Rulebook putting "gauntlet" in the "Unarmed Attacks" category, as brass knuckles are listed as "Unarmed Attacks" because gauntlets are there.

Brass knuckles should be armed (light melee weapon) attacks. (As should gauntlets and spiked gauntlets.)

Which makes it clear that using brass knuckles is not an unarmed attack (and the description of the weapon should not refer to unarmed attacks), and therefore monk's don't get their unarmed damage with them. They can, as others have pointed out, still use them to flurry, and allows for things like silver brass knuckles and +5 flaming brass knuckles.

The cestus description confuses the issue by referring to unarmed attacks; it's clearly a light melee weapon and doesn't relate to unarmed strike rules at all.

Rope gauntlets are light melee weapons and its descriptive text shouldn't confuse the issue by referring to "unarmed strikes."

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

As I mentioned in this thread or another, how often do you see skilled martial artists IRL using brass knuckles?

(Brass knuckles are for chumps who aren't actually good at fighting unarmed.)

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

None of those three weapons allow a monk to use his level-based unarmed damage; they just do the damage listed on the weapon table. This isn't errata (they were never intended to allow monks to do that, as they can already deal lethal or nonlethal at their discretion), it's a clarification of the use of terms like "with unarmed attacks" in the descriptive text of those three weapons (they aren't unarmed attacks, and mentioning unarmed attacks at all confuses the issue).

A monk can still use brass knuckles or a cestus as part of a flurry (thus the "monk" entry in the Special column), but not rope gauntlets.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Branden Voss wrote:
Thank you for the brass knuckles do you have an official dev word saying you cannot?

Well the rules don't work that way. He is taking the "it doesn't say I can't stance", but that is the worse way to look at rules.

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