I'm a melee fighter with spells and natural weapons. I'm about to take corrosive touch and looked up holding touch spells so I would be aware of the rules when the inevitable questions came up.
From what I understand I only have to concentrate when I'm casting the spell. After I cast it and am holding the charge I don't have to concentrate to hold it.
When I'm holding the spell and am on the second round. I make a normal attack....miss...can my second claw or bite if the connect discharge the spell normally if I hit?
I'm holding a spell and am in a thin hallway. I have to move through friendly spaces. Do I have to do checks to see if I bump into people? If yes, what kind of checks? If I do bump into someone, or am hit by an enemy with an attack do I just lose the spell or is the spell cast on them?
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I'm a melee fighter with spells and natural weapons. I'm about to take corrosive touch and looked up holding touch spells so I would be aware of the rules when the inevitable questions came up.
From what I understand I only have to concentrate when I'm casting the spell. After I cast it and am holding the charge I don't have to concentrate to hold it.
That is correct. One you have cast the spell, it is "held" until it is discharged, or the duration runs out if that applies. However, touching anything with that hand will discharge the spell, including weapons, other people you didn't intend to cast it on, etc. . .
When I'm holding the spell and am on the second round. I make a normal attack....miss...can my second claw or bite if the connect discharge the spell normally if I hit?
Generally, no. It is "held" in one hand, and if you have two claw attacks and a bite, you basically designate one hand to "hold the charge". If that attack misses, it is still holding the charge, and your other hands attack just hits like normal. (Otherwise casters that have a weapon in the hand would automatically discharge the spell, for example). Another thing, assuming it's a harmful spell vs the target, once you are holding the charge, you can use that spell as an AoO if you like. Less important to you with your claws and bite, but it is considered an armed attack, and you do threaten with it.
I'm holding a spell and am in a thin hallway. I have to move through friendly spaces. Do I have to do checks to see if I bump into people? If yes, what kind of checks? If I do bump into someone, or am hit by an enemy with an attack do I just lose the spell or is the spell cast on them?
Generally no. A long as you make a point not to touch anyone or anything with that hand. If it's a particularly small area, like needing to Winnie the Poo through a tine hole, climb a rope, or its reasonable that everyone is just that crammed in, they might have it go off. Generally if you are hit by an attack, it does not affect your held spell, with two partial exceptions. Grapple and Swallow Whole, the DM might just allow it in some cases. If not, than you are at a pretty good advantage, as you are really restricted as to what weapons you can use in those cases, and if you already have the held spell, a simple Touch Attack is very easy to get off, and is a threat until it does finally touch.
Think about the held spell as if it where a dagger. Just because someone hit you in the face, doesn't mean they get stabbed by your dagger. And just because they grapple you, doesn't mean you can freely wiggle the dagger around to slice at their wrists. You have to try to do it on your turn.
out of curiosity....could I cast corrosive touch on my bite attack or does it have to be one of my claws?
If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
The spell is not held in a designated limb.
If you touch anything it is discharged.
+1.
Touch spells are not held in a particular body part. Case in point, a Magus can cast Chill Touch, declare Spellstrike (to deliver it through his weapon) and miss, and then on the next round use his other hand to deliver the spell through a normal touch attack.
The only given limitation (and this in FAQ\designer comments) is that delivering a touch spell requires the use of a hand or hand-like appendage; you can't deliver it through a bite or a tail swipe, but you can through any claw or tentacle attack.
Taken those bolded parts literally you generally hold something in your hand and thinking of it that way does simplify things. Although touch AC is low if an enemy could throw themselves at you to discharge at touch spell it would stand to reason that it would be even lower.
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They did rule that it does need to be a hand (and occasionally another suitable appendage like a tentacle, but not a tail slap or bite), because otherwise it would be impossible to not touch something or hold the charge, from the ground, to clothing, to the air around you. However, I can not seem to find it, so please feel free to FAQ if needed.
Also being touched by something else does not discharge the Held spell, you actively need to touch them or it.
Spellstrike, and similar abilities work a bit differently.
"Instead of" indicates that it removes the option to hold the charge in anything but the weapon they are channeling it through, but does not otherwise indicate that the spell can not otherwise be "held" if the attack misses. It also allows for that Weapon to be touched without discharging the Held Spell.
They did rule that it does need to be a hand (and occasionally another suitable appendage like a tentacle, but not a tail slap or bite), because otherwise it would be impossible to not touch something or hold the charge, from the ground, to clothing, to the air around you. However, I can not seem to find it, so please feel free to FAQ if needed.
Also being touched by something else does not discharge the Held spell, you actively need to touch them or it.
Spellstrike, and similar abilities work a bit differently.
** spoiler omitted **"Instead of" indicates that it removes the option to hold the charge in anything but the weapon they are channeling it through, but does not otherwise indicate that the spell can not otherwise be "held" if the attack misses. It also allows for that Weapon to be touched without discharging the Held Spell.
The latter statement regarding Spellstrike is not correct. Here's the full FAQ:
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.
So the charge is not held "in the weapon"; it's still held in the caster (and saying it's held "in the hand" is just shorthand since it can only be delivered with a hand or hand-like appendage). Additionally the option to deliver the charge with your hand isn't removed since Spellstrike is intended to give you more options, not remove them.
So from that rule...
it does specify using 'that' hand it is held in a specific hand. So it's exactly as DM Beckett has Ben saying.
The spell is held in that hand. I could miss with the claw and still hit with the other and my bite and not discharge it.
Someone could be pushed into me in that round and it might not be discharged.
I wouldn't be able to do anything with that hand the hand no longer held the spell. If I forgot and grabbed a potion, the spell would discharge into the object.
Thanks for all the responses guys I think I got it.
@DM Beckett: I think it's more correct to say that it's discharged using a hand. The use of "held" is sort of a combination of shorthand and
@Static Hamster: That's still not completely correct.
In the discussion leading up to that (and other) FAQs Sean K. has indicated that the intent is that when you cast a touch spell, you're holding the charge, and that the charge then discharges the next time you touch a foe with a hand or hand-like appendage.
I'll see if I can find the discussion itself. One of the Magus examples confirmed as working is the earlier one I posted above: Cast a touch spell, miss with your weapon\Spellstrike, touch the creature with your free hand and discharge.
Effectively, once you cast a touch spell, the next time that you actively touch something or someone with any hand or hand-like appendage, the spell discharges. So in your example re: the potion, it wouldn't matter which hand you used to grab the potion - the spell would discharge.
So let me just say that I'm a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.
Hypothetically I have time to buff up...
Round 1: I cast Elemental Touch.
Round 2: I cast Corrosive Touch.
Round 3: I run up to my enemy and do a single attack; miss...one of my party members cast haste.
Round 4: I do a full attack; first claw has elemental touch, but misses...second claw also misses; if I had hit with either the Corrosive touch would add to my damage.
Now I have a choice: I can use a third claw attack (hopefully doing the damage from both the Elemental touch and Corrosive touch...perhaps giving up on the attack damage and doing spell damage only with a normal touch attack then do my bite as normal which affects neither spell if I hit, or do 2 bite attacks and hold it for the next round.
If I touch anything with either of my hands; the spell automatically discharges. Be it an item or a creature.
If I try to cast another spell while holding a spell it harmlessly dissipates.
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So let me just say that I'm a Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.
Hypothetically I have time to buff up...Round 1: I cast Elemental Touch.
Round 2: I cast Corrosive Touch.Round 3: I run up to my enemy and do a single attack; miss...one of my party members cast haste.
Round 4: I do a full attack; first claw has elemental touch, but misses...second claw also misses; if I had hit with either the Corrosive touch would add to my damage.Now I have a choice: I can use a third claw attack (hopefully doing the damage from both the Elemental touch and Corrosive touch...perhaps giving up on the attack damage and doing spell damage only with a normal touch attack then do my bite as normal which affects neither spell if I hit, or do 2 bite attacks and hold it for the next round.
If I touch anything with either of my hands; the spell automatically discharges. Be it an item or a creature.
If I try to cast another spell while holding a spell it harmlessly dissipates.
Absolutely not. Here's your example, corrected:
Round 1: Cast Elemental Touch. You are now holding ET.
Round 2: Cast Corrosive Touch. As soon as you cast a different spell, the spell you were holding goes away. You are now holding Corrosive Touch. Elemental Touch has dissipated and you wasted your first round.
Round 3: You move and attack, resulting in a miss. You are still holding CT. An ally casts Haste.
Round 4: You full attack. First claw misses. Second claw misses. You are still holding Corrosive Touch.
You will continue to hold Corrosive Touch until you do one of the following:
1. Cast another spell.
2. Hit with a claw attack.
3. Touch anything with a claw, intentionally or unintentionally.
4. Dismiss the spell (assuming CT is dismissable...too lazy to look it up right now).
I apologize if there's some wonky ability that allows you to hold two touch spells simultaneously that I'm unaware of.
Elemental Touch is a duration spell; not a held instantaneous spell. I thought that since it wasn't held but lasts a number of rounds equal to my caster level it would not dissipate.
Static Hamster is correct that it's not a touch spell. It's a range of Personal with a target of You. It's a bit odd, but it's actually a self-buff that grants you a touch attack which deals elemental damage.
Since the rules for spell dissipation relate only to touch spells, casting a second spell should not cause Elemental Touch to end.
Now here's the hiccup: Spellstrike says "...whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack." Elemental Touch, despite granting you an elemental touch attack, does not have a range of touch and so can't be used in conjunction with Spellstrike.
Because the spell allows it, you could use an unarmed strike, claw, or slam, to deliver one charge of Elemental Touch per round as well as delivering a touch spell via Spellstrike.
I realize you're using Magus as an example but I am not a Magus; so how spell strike works doesn't affect this; it only elaborates on how touch attacks work in general.
Sorry for adding the extra complication but I'm just making sure I have as many of the questions that will inevitably come up answered before it comes up at the table.
If I am right about how Elemental Touch will interact with a held spell I think I have everything.
One more question. When I make a claw attack does it have to be with both claws or can I get two attacks with one claw. Personally I think I have to use both claws, just want to confirm.
When using natural attacks, I believe (and I'll say up front that natural attacks aren't my strongest area) that you get one attack with each natural weapon. So if you have two claws, you have to attack with each claw once in order to get two attacks - not the same claw twice.
From a perspective of touch spells, it won't make too much of a difference unless you were hoping to keep that other claw open for something else.
As a full attack you get one attack with each natural weapon...standard attack is still only one (your choice)
Great.
Well that's all I can think of. Thanks everyone!
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Apologies. I was mistaken about Elemental Touch...that's what I get for not looking it up before I post. In the order specified, you would indeed be able to use the damage from Elemental Touch and Corrosive Touch on the same attack. If you tried to cast them in reverse order (Corrosive Touch first, then Elemental Touch) you would lose Corrosive Touch.
Additionally, if you have both spells active, Corrosive Touch activates the first time you touch something, whether your intended target or not. Make sure you keep that in mind. It was pointed out before, but you can't choose where you "hold a spell." You're just holding it, and anything you touch with your hand (or hand-like appendage) becomes the target.
Just found another little wrinkle but I think I know how it works.
If I hold and spell and then on the next round attack and get a critical the attack damage is doubled but not the spell damage; as when I decided to hold the spell then attack the spell damage became extra damage.
If I hold a spell and then the next round do a normal touch attack to deliver it and get a critical; the spell damage is doubled as normal.
So another question...
If I was holding a spell, and missed with my first claw attack, could I do a simple touch attack with my second claw attack just to make sure the spell went off?