I was looking to make a Maneuver Master who specialized in trips and grapples, and I wanted to make sure I knew how these two interact.
(Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full attack
action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat
maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to
make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple. Normal: Maintaining a grapple is a standard action.
Benefit: Whenever you use Greater Grapple to successfully maintain a grapple as a move action, you can then spend a
swift action to make a grapple combat maneuver check.
If I understand correctly, at 9th level, you can make an attack (+6), follow it with a grapple (flurry) (+7), attack again, maintain the grapple (flurry)(+5), and make an extra grapple (rapid grappler)(+5).
That, or Rapid Grapple does not work with Flurry of Maneuvers.
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I don't believe you would be able to use flurry of maneuvers while actively grappling, would you? Besides, maintaining grapple technically takes place in the round after it's been initiated. That appears to imply that you've used the greater grapple feat to maintain grapple. Thus you would not be able to just grapple burst something with flurry, awesome as it might be.
I think you can only maintain at the beginning of a round. Greater grapple doesnt make grappling a move action but maintaiing. That same action is the trigger for rappid grapple.
I just figured that one of the maneuvers each round would be spent on maintaining the grapple, which would allow it to continue. Does the grapple check to maintain (i.e., when Greater Grapple comes into play) have to be the first thing done in a round?
Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
It looks to me like the grapple check to maintain is a standard (or move, with greater grapple), which I think would qualify as one of the maneuvers that would fit in the flurry. If you didn't make a grapple check that round, the hold would be released.
So, I guess the question partially becomes: At what point in the round must you make your grapple check to maintain a grapple, and if you don't, when does it release?
The only other case I could possibly think of where this needs answering, though, is if a Monk of the Four Winds were to use Slow Time in order to grapple someone faster. Would their first standard action have to be to maintain? Or could they conceivably get a few attacks in and let go? Does the grapple release at the beginning of a non-maintaining action, or at the end?
If I'm not the only one who thinks it's unclear, perhaps a FAQ?
Bump, because I'd really like some help figuring this out. I can't find any rules saying that one couldn't use Flurry of Maneuvers to make multiple grapple checks and attacks in a round.
If it does work, then I can see some potentially effective combos. My favorite, despite being a rather large investment, goes something like this:
First Attack: Trip Attempt (or tripping strike, if 14th level) to activate Enhanced Ki Throw, Greater Trip, and Vicious Stomp
Swift Action: Binding Throw to initiate a grapple
First Maneuver:Grapple check to establish Chokehold
Second Attack: Stunning Fist
If SF goes off, two extra attacks from Medusa's Wrath
Second Maneuver:If pin is successful, grapple for damage. If not, attempt to pin again
If you can get Constrict (such as from an item, or the Final Embrace line if you can qualify for it), this is extremely effective. Even without that, it's 4-7 attacks and simultaneously shutting down a target.
Sorta muscles in on the Tetori, though that archetype is still a great choice, due to both Graceful Grappler and Inescapable Grasp.
FoM does say that the maneuver used can be one that normally requires a standard action (which grapple does). RAW, flurrying grapples should work, and I doubt it would stop working once someone took Greater Grapple. I can, however, see how Rapid Grapple would not trigger due to it not being specifically a move action that triggered it.
So, if that is the case, my above combo still works (the swift action to grapple from Binding Throw still fits). It just means subsequent rounds don't get an extra grapple check from Rapid Grappler to tack on. Still, 2-3 grapple checks a round plus normal attacks against a potentially pinned foe is pretty nice. Throw in Snapping Turtle Clutch to get a defensive grapple in there, and it becomes very dangerous to get in reach of the Maneuver Master.
Is that right? Or have I missed something that disallows this?
Heres the problem which james touched on.
Without rapid grappler you can choose to maintain as a standard action. In this case you could maintain onthe second round of a grapple and flurry of maneuvers,
The problem is if you o this rappid grapple no longer works because rappid grappler has a specific requirement that you maintain as a move action to get its effects which your not doing if you are doing fom.
Ignoring the feats, using just flurry of maneuvers, can't you just free action release and then flurry grapple again? You'd never get the +5 for maintaining, but you'd get your full flurry every round. No?
Mmk, so no rapid grapple. But flurry maneuvers can still be used for grapple checks, right? You'd only get to use them as the flurried actions, not in place pf regular attacks, meaning a maximum of 3 checks in a round at lvl 15.
Still not a bad route, and it saves me throwing a feat I can't use on a build that's already heavily feat-intensive.