| nighttree |
Prior to Pathfinder, I was comming from a setting with a very clear and distinct difference between divine and arcane magic....arcane casters didn't understand divine magic, and divine casters didn't understand arcane magic.
However magic doesn't seem as segregated on Golorian.
I'm clear on the mechanical level, but "fluff" wise what exactly is the difference between arcane and divine magic in the setting.
LazarX
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Prior to Pathfinder, I was comming from a setting with a very clear and distinct difference between divine and arcane magic....arcane casters didn't understand divine magic, and divine casters didn't understand arcane magic.
However magic doesn't seem as segregated on Golorian.
I'm clear on the mechanical level, but "fluff" wise what exactly is the difference between arcane and divine magic in the setting.
It's pretty much as segregated as it was in any other D+D world AS FAR AS THE LEGACY classes are concerned. i.e. all of the ones that are essentially lifted from the core 3.5 SRD, wizard, cleric, druid, etc.
Some new classes like the witch breach the divide in a limited fashion. The witch has spells that draw from both the arcane and divine realms but limited access to either. And certain capstone spells from those realms aren't on her list.
Set
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Right from the very start, in 1st edition, clerics and magic-users shared a ton of spells. (From detect magic, light and protection from evil to high level stuff like control weather, gate, astral spell and symbol.)
3.X mixed it up even more, by putting a lot of previously wizard / magic-user only spells on clerical Domain lists, and adding assorted previously cleric / druid only spells to the Bard's arcane spell list, although there were still some bizarre corner cases, like a bard being unable to use a scroll of cure light wounds scribed by a cleric, and a cleric being unable to use a scroll of cure light wounds scribed by a bard, despite either of them being able to use a wand of cure light wounds made by anyone.
PF has taken it a step further, adding some formerly divine-only spells to the Witch, and yet more formerly arcane-only spells to the list of bonus spells that are learned as part of an Oracle's Mystery (Bones, Flames, Heaven, etc. include quite a few previously arcane-only spells, for instance).
Ultimately, the arcane / divine divide was really set in stone in 3rd edition (previously, spells were classed more by an individual classes spell list, and a cleric could not even use a scroll of a spell on his cleric spell list if it had been scribed by a druid, and a magic-user couldn't use a scroll of a spell he knew if it was scribed by an illusionist, in 1st edition), and I expect it's time is passing, as it gets nibbled away at over the years. Eventually, we'll probably get back to classes having spell lists, with no arcane/divine distinction, allowing a witch to be a Desna-empowered 'divine' caster (like Feiya) with no caveat that her spells mechanically count as arcane spells (and her scrolls of cure light wounds are therefore, inexplicably, unusable by a cleric of her goddess), despite being explicitly granted to her by the same goddess.
It might make things a bit more coherent if magic was magic, neither arcane nor divine, learned rote or innately in the blood, and some people study magic from books and others awaken it from some supernatural heritage and still others have it revealed to them by a patron or deity.
The mechanics are generally the same, whether a cleric or wizard is casting dispel magic or magic circle against evil, so, IMO, it makes more sense that they are the same thing, being approached from different directions, and not that two completely antithetical approaches to supernatural power both created many dozens of mechanically identical spells that do the exact same thing. (For that matter, hundreds of gods, with very different mindsets, some of them not even *remotely* interested in granting spells to their followers, like the Great Old Ones, or Groetus, would all grant the exact same list of spells, all functioning pretty much identically, as gods like Nethys or Brigh, who have 'create magic' or 'innovation and creativity' as their hat.)
| Greylurker |
I don't think there is any official fluff regarding it.
For my own campaigns I just kind of came up with my own. Both forms draw on extra planar energies. Arcane draws from the inner planes while Divine draws from a single outer plane.
Arcane Spellcasters use hour long preparation rituals to draw energy from the inner planes and then use either an Arcane Item or Familiar to act as a buffer between them and the energy to keep from exploding (IE: the Arcane Bond)
Most divine spellcasters need a god to act as an intermediary that funnels the power to the priest in exchange for prayer and worship. Because it comes from the Outer Planes Divine magic is heavily based on Morality. When a Priest strays too far from the plane he gains power from he looses the ability to use those energies.
| nighttree |
I ask this in part because I'm trying to work through a character concept....and I could go with several different classes to get the feel I want...but I'm not certain how the interaction between arcane and divine magic might muddy the concept.
The character is a caster, who has gained his knowledge of magic from the "vestiges" of 5 dead mages who where imprisoned within the Threshold, and are basically clinging to him.
So he mostly comes across as a wizard, but minus the spellbook.
The two most promising options are...
I could go Oracle (haunted curse)and focus on a caster build, probably taking the Ancient lorekeeper archytype to get some additional wizard spells.
However as the majority of the five vestiges are arcane casters....I'm not sure I can make the character feel "wizard trained" even with the spell selection from Ancient Lorekeeper.
I could go Witch (probably scarred witch doctor)using the vestiges as his patron.
If I'm careful with spell selection, and hexes....I think I can still pull the correct feel of...
| Greylurker |
It's a shame you don't have Rite Publishing's Pact Magic Unbound. That's all about binding spirits to you for magical powers
Another idea is one I've used for Summoners and Druids that I called Spirit Magic. Basically Each Spell is a Spirit and instead of casting a spell you summon the spirit to do it for you.
For your character you could twist it around so that each Spell known is associated with a different Wizard who manifests each time you cast.
Summoner might work too, the Broodmaster could have multiple spellcasting eidolons that are manifestations of the Mages or the Evolutionist could have a single Eidolon that changes to match which Mage is manifesting most strongly
| nighttree |
It's a shame you don't have Rite Publishing's Pact Magic Unbound. That's all about binding spirits to you for magical powers
Actually I do. BUT we for the most part don't use third party stuff at our table...we ran into to many balance issues in the past.
For your character you could twist it around so that each Spell known is associated with a different Wizard who manifests each time you cast.
I actually spent last night looking at the Witch spell list, and comparing it to some of the suggested Wizard spells (in the Wizard guide). A fair number of them are available on the Witch's spell list, or are emulated by Hexes...
So going Witch is quickly outstripping the Oracle idea, which at least takes the whole Arcane vs Divine confusion out of the equation.Summoner might work too, the Broodmaster could have multiple spellcasting eidolons that are manifestations of the Mages or the Evolutionist could have a single Eidolon that changes to match which Mage is manifesting most strongly
Actually, I considered Summoner for a moment....but their spell list is too specalized, and it's impossible to have incorporeal eidolon right out of the gate. Besides, the vestiges are supposed to be nothing more than knowledge and influence in his own head...sure they can manifest as spectral spirits about him while he is consulting them to prepare spells...or maybe due some minor stuff like what is described in the Oracle haunted curse...but they are not supposed to be actual combatants.