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So, I'm considering bringing in an Antipaladin into my game as a villian. However, I'm trying to make one that is less of raving psychopath and more philosophical regards to their alignment of Chaotic Evil. Below, I've cut and paste a quote from Nietzsche's The Antichrist that I am considering modeling him after. Do you think that this philosophy is consistent with the Pathfinder definition of CE?
"What is good?—Whatever augments the feeling of power, the will to power, power itself, in man.
What is evil?—Whatever springs from weakness.
What is happiness?—The feeling that power increases—that resistance is overcome.
Not contentment, but more power; not peace at any price, but war; not virtue, but efficiency (virtue in the Renaissance sense, virtu, virtue free of moral acid).
The weak and the botched shall perish: first principle of our charity. And one should help them to it."
Pages 14 through 16 might be of interest to you.
Depends on how he takes those lessons to heart, imo.
That said, Neitzche philosophy isn't friendly with alignment if I remember correctly.
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That said, Neitzche philosophy isn't friendly with alignment if I remember correctly.
The alignment system is a slave morality.
"What is Best in Life?"....Sorry couldn't resist.
That said, Neitzche philosophy isn't friendly with alignment if I remember correctly.The alignment system is a slave morality.
That is certainly true. Even if you claim that CE frees you from conventional morality, your anitpaladin's obsession with perfection (here represented by the strength of violence and ruthlessness) is a fault that limits one from becoming a Superior Man. No, free oneself the shackles imposed by both society and the self would mean that they do the actions that best serve the situation, and he should likely not concern himself with those unwilling to free themselves. But hey, I decided not to take that philosophy course, so I am very far from an expert on Nietzsche. I am likely muddling things.
Although, there is an interesting question about the 'killing the weak is charity' bit. Since there is a verifiable afterlife, would it be evil to send innocents souls there so they might enjoy eternal bliss rather than risking them becoming corrupted by this world and end up in...less than pleasant places.
Admittedly, there is also the pain of forced separation, as well as forcing them to experience the pain and fear of death. I guess we just have to send everyone together at the same time without them ever knowing it. Cleansing entire villages during the night with silent daggers is the greatest kindness one can give, no?
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I've wanted to create a less psychopathic antipaladin myself. Not sure if the Nietzche quote helps, but I'll tell you how I'd do it.
My idea was for a "diplomancer" antipaladin. He uses his Charisma (he should have a fair bit of it) to get people to do what he wants. He lies easily and often, plays people against each other, tempts people with vague promises and honeyed words, and is rather good at knowing what to say to get what he wants.
Sooner or later, his "allies" call him out on this. Once he realizes that someone won't believe his lies, he shrugs off their protests and points out that he never made them listen to him-- they CHOSE to do it, and they're free to walk away whenever they want. Those that do walk away he lets go, but when someone expects him to be held accountable for his actions, that's when he switches from Diplomacy to Intimidate.
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Pages 14 through 16 might be of interest to you.
That guide is great. Thanks for the link.
Hmm...good point that Nietzsche may be incompatible with Pathfinder alignment. There was something about that quote that evokes a ruthless individuality though that I found appealing.
I have one of those too.
But I never really tackle the RP aspect, since most of the time I prefer to play a sarcastic d bag who wants to kill everything that moves.
I imagine the best kind of true villain antipaladin is one who has issue with the current order of society, and one who intends to shake the foundation of how people perceive themselves. Make them question whether or not Law is right, and whether they should allow their rulers to remain in power. He'll play it off like he's doing it for their sake, but by the end of it it's actually all part of some convoluted scheme to garner sacrifices for some Mcguffin esk ritual that will grant him ungodly power and turn him into the BBEG that players fear.
I think that would be the best way.
Hope this doesn't turn out to be a thread derail, but that is this book about the antichrist everyone keeps talking about?
This?
The problem as I see it is that the BBG you really want should be lawful evil. That is how the antichrist is most often portrayed, as a ruthless secular leader controlling massive worldwide conspiracies. That just isn't chaotic evil.
If you want to do something different with chaotic evil play up the love of freedom aspect of chaos: free will, an opposition to destiny or divine will, pro-democracy or individual rights in a monarchy, that sort of thing and combine it with a ruthless anything goes ends justify the means attitude. Taken to extremes, that could effectively get you chaotic evil.
For example a chaotic evil paladin atheist that fights against divine oppression because the gods or a particular god take away our free will.
The problem as I see it is that the BBG you really want should be lawful evil. That is how the antichrist is most often portrayed, as a ruthless secular leader controlling massive worldwide conspiracies. That just isn't chaotic evil.
There's a certain awkwardness in wanting the downfall of society. Your chaotic for defiling tradition and wanting the downfall of all organization, your lawful for wanting to instate your own and having a vision of the world(and chaotic at the same time... I'm supposing its a lawful society you want though). Alignment doesn't handle this very well.
I agree but it would be fun to see Chaotic evil done a little different than the enraged mass murderer/engines of destruction we normally see.
Two, greatly varied inspirations, come to mind Aleister Crowley, and the extreme self help style ranting of Slater's character in Very Bad Things. Pure individualism (chaotic) with no concern for others (evil). Blend well, add a demonic liege lord, and you should get a great AP.
I remember an interesting line of thought: the existence of demons and CE individuals can be seen as a failure on part of the gods.
While there are various circumstances that could drive one insane, most CE people become that way do to systematic abuse or other unfortunate circumstances that normalizes such selfish and violent behavior.
If the gods had taken the time to properly teach mortals, or even if they initially created or altered them to be less inclined to such behavior, and if they had made this world into an environment where they did not need to struggle so much over limited resources, then would there be evil and rebellion?
And looking about how the demon race came about, it becomes even more obvious that nothing was being done about the matter. Early on, the Abyss was simply a dumping group for the souls of mortals that no one really even wanted due to their alignment. Instead of trying to rehabilitate these souls in anyway, they were simply left to pile up like refuse. Inevitably, this horrendous mistake came to bite them in the rear when the Abyss learned how to turn them into demons, allowing an unending hoard to be born overnight. And thus the gods were left with an endless race of creatures that raged and wished to destroy this flawed creation they call 'reality'.
So here might be a good motivation for an antipaladin: "Viva La Revolucion!"
Ah...did I just lay down the groundwork for a demonic communist dictatorship?