Furthermore, as I brought up earlier, Pathfinder Multiplication takes over so it can't even be 3x. It would be 2.5x tops even if we went with Davick's misinterpretation. 1x + (1.5 - 1)x + (2 - 1)x = 2.5x where x is your base Strength Bonus.
You're talking about x when the ability is talking about y.
[sarcasm]You have to remember...the most important thing about this game is that we as a community force the developers to constantly change their books because one person out of 100 can read the language and force a different conclusion of the rules.
This of course is a close call to the second most important thing about the game...that using that forced interpretation of the rules to squeeze out more damage.[/sarcasm]
Seriously though...I've been reading all of these and I'm confused on what the actual rules question is anymore.
[sarcasm]You have to remember...the most important thing about this game is that we as a community force the developers to constantly change their books because one person out of 100 can read the language and force a different conclusion of the rules.
This of course is a close call to the second most important thing about the game...that using that forced interpretation of the rules to squeeze out more damage.[/sarcasm]
Seriously though...I've been reading all of these and I'm confused on what the actual rules question is anymore.
Popularity of an idea, does not make that idea correct. I'm not aware of anyone trying to force the developers to do anything. I can only speak for myself, but I was merely saying that the wording of "Strength Damage" is poor because it uses one term to refer to two different and closely related things. That's poor design, and likely an unintentional mishap. But it is what it is. TO argue otherwise is to say that A ≠ A. And that's impossible.
I need to make my sarcasm tags bigger....
Something came up in a home game I am playing in. I didn't want to start a whole new thread but couldn't find the answer in any existing threads, so I am posting here.
A fellow player (Fighter) is considering the Two-Handed Fighter archetype. He asked me a question about the abilities replacing Armor Training and neither I nor the GM had a 100% answer for him.
Some Archetype abilities state outright that they replace an entire Base Class ability. Others only modify or replace parts of the Base Class ability. In the case of the TWF Archetype Overhand Chop, Backswing, Piledriver, and Greater Power Attack each state that they replace Armor Training 1, 2, 3, and 4 respectively. However, no Archetype abilities specifically state that they replace the portion of Armor Training that states this:
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
So the question is: Does a Fighter with the Two-Weapon Fighter archetype still get to move at his normal speed in Medium armor (Heavy armor at 7th level)?
No. They do not have armor training.
May I ask the logic behind that? Not trying to be confrontational, just want to know why you'd say that when Armor Training wasn't replaced; only Armor Training 1, 2, 3, and 4 were replaced?
There's only four iterations of armor training and they lose all four. There aren't two different versions of armor training. The movement speed, ACP, and dex bonus are all part of the same ability that the Two-Handed Fighter gives up. They never write armor training on their sheet.
Makes sense.
I want to make sure I have the best answer for my GM. Is what Johnnycat93 stated the general consensus, does anyone else have differing views based in RAW, or have there been any relevant designer comments anyone knows of?
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Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
Besides the fact that this is all contained under one header, "Armor Training", we also have the ability to parse it using English.
"Starting at 3rd level, a fighter..."
This beginning statement sets up the rest of the first paragraph.
"In addition, a fighter..."
This is a continuation of the first phrase, but required a separate paragraph because it concerns a different benefit of Armor Training, unrelated to the reduction of numerical penalties.
But, really, all you need to know is that everything after "Armor Training", and before "Weapon Training", concerns Armor Training.