Essentially, the parameters are that every character gets either an Eidolon or the Summon Monster SLAs. You can play a different class, but you must trade away certain abilities for one of these things. For example, you could play a wizard, but you would have to give up certain things for either an Eidolon or Summon Monster.
I will provide a list of swaps shortly. Any feedback on swaps will be appreciated.
Actually, scratch that. YOU provide the swaps for your character, and I will help balance it.
Note that you cannot use the Summoner Archetypes, nor any Multiclass Archetype that uses those archetypes.
Wow. That sounds really interesting.
As it happens, there are a few Multiclass Archetypes that would be usable for this and are pre-balanced.
here
here
here
and here.
These are just a few.
You can select any Multiclass Archetype that is part-summoner from this list, so long as it meets the parameters set in the first post.
However, you are by no means limited by these, and you can create your own if you want.
Backstories would be good, specifically one that shows how you came across your eidolon - these can be surprisingly varied.
Honestly, I would GM, but this basically requires a homebrew world, and I am no good at making up these things, and I only have access to the Beginner Box bestiary. So I guess we need a much more experienced and creative GM (with access to more materials) than I.
A note to GMs - the 'no archetypes' clause can be overridden if you want.
bumpity-bump.
and I only have access to the Beginner Box bestiary. So I guess we need a much more experienced and creative GM (with access to more materials) than I.The SRD has listings for creatures. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
And why would you need a special homebre world ? Golarion has summoners.
Hm, I guess it could work either way.
Should I GM?
You should definitely try GM-ing. But I don't know if you have experience GMíng, and a campaign with relatively complicated characters like these will be challenging. You'd either have to have experienced players or be on top of them to avoid mistakes in their build. I'd also suggest running this in an existing adventure.and I only have access to the Beginner Box bestiary. So I guess we need a much more experienced and creative GM (with access to more materials) than I.The SRD has listings for creatures. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
And why would you need a special homebre world ? Golarion has summoners.Hm, I guess it could work either way.
Should I GM?
Alright, I suppose I will GM. And I've already familiarized myself with multiclass archetypes, so that won't be a problem.
What would be the in-game reason for everyone having the summoner features. May help in designing characters.
What would be the in-game reason for everyone having the summoner features. May help in designing characters.
Perhaps a huge increase in contacts between Outsiders and the races of Golarion, forcing people to learn to deal with and work wkth them.
I love love love the sound of this, and those multiclass templates look pretty great, lots of flavour.
I love love love the sound of this, and those multiclass templates look pretty great, lots of flavour.
Exactly!
I'm considering running this as a Rise of the Runelords AP, considering that I own that. I will probably have an NPC Siege Marshal in the party just to try it out if no one picks that archetype.
Post character concepts if you all want..
Edit: should I repost in a new, cleaner thread?
I'd be up for this. I'm very familiar with summoners.
GM, suggestion, have you ever read Northern Lights? Maybe in your Golarion everyone gets Daemons, but with two variations; some get Familiars, some get full-fledged Eidolons. Just to give some more choice for players and their multi-class archetypes.
I'd be up for this. I'm very familiar with summoners.
GM, suggestion, have you ever read Northern Lights? Maybe in your Golarion everyone gets Daemons, but with two variations; some get Familiars, some get full-fledged Eidolons. Just to give some more choice for players and their multi-class archetypes.
And the campaign goes to Arkwright!
Also, this is meant to be summoner-focused campaign, so I don't really want to have familiars as a choice instead of eidolons. Otherwise, it could end up with several people with cats who *say* they are eidolons. At least, that's the vibe I get from 'familiars.'
As in you want me to GM?
Ah cool. I thought you wanted it as an everyone-has-a-mystical-creature campaign rather than a specifically summoner campaign.
As in you want me to GM?
Ah cool. I thought you wanted it as an everyone-has-a-mystical-creature campaign rather than a specifically summoner campaign.
Um, yes.
....*FACEPALM*
Sorry, you posted as your GM alias, so I assumed you were expressing interest in GMing.
D 'oh, sorry.
Disregard that.
Also, i /did/ post rules for archetype creation... Did the tentative fluff I posted make it seem like that? If so, sorry if it wasnt clear.
Sorry, this is my default alias. GM'ing is a big thing, not quite certain i'm up to it... then again I might be, I've been looking for a new campaign for awhile. I'll have a think.
I did see your tentative fluff and crunch suggestions; just wanted to see if you were locked to summoners-only. If I were to GM, I think I'd much prefer to have people choose between Familiars and Eidolons. Adds some more diversity. Plus, in this world, EVERYONE would have a Familiar or Eidolon, no?
I'm considering running this as a Rise of the Runelords AP, considering that I own that. I will probably have an NPC Siege Marshal in the party just to try it out if no one picks that archetype.
I had my eye on the Siege Marshal, but I'm already playing two or three Gunslingers in other games, so it's likely that I'll take something else. I'm currently eyeing the Dreamweaver and the Grave Caller with serious interest.
As for it being Rise of the Runelords, as long as you don't mind me having knowledge in advance, I'm fine with that - I don't know the grand scheme of things, but I am playing in a RotR game already, though it's not super far along, I'll always have a bit of foreknowledge. But I shouldn't have a problem separating it out.
Whatever AP it ends up being, I think there will be a lot of tweaking to do on Monster Encounters, since every player character will be rather powerful.
GM, suggestion, have you ever read Northern Lights? Maybe in your Golarion everyone gets Daemons, but with two variations; some get Familiars, some get full-fledged Eidolons. Just to give some more choice for players and their multi-class archetypes.
That's a brilliant idea - His Dark Materials is a great, great trilogy.
So no Bonded Warmage for you Orelius? <--- Original author Orelius Lionpaw… ;P
Nice idea Orelius… obviously I'm happy to see this as the original author of the Master of Havoc, Eldritch Menagerist, Abomination Rider and Dreamweaver… though there are plenty of flavorful and fun Eidolon and Familiar based multiclass archetypes to choose from...
Sorry, this is my default alias. GM'ing is a big thing, not quite certain i'm up to it... then again I might be, I've been looking for a new campaign for awhile. I'll have a think.
I did see your tentative fluff and crunch suggestions; just wanted to see if you were locked to summoners-only. If I were to GM, I think I'd much prefer to have people choose between Familiars and Eidolons. Adds some more diversity. Plus, in this world, EVERYONE would have a Familiar or Eidolon, no?
Oh, I see your point.
@OSW: I'm already playing a Bonded Warmage in a home campaign, and I want an eidolon with (eventually) 7 6d6+dex 100 ft range attacks. The siege marshal makes the term 'gundolon' literal.
bumpification
Orelius, have you decided on an AP and character creation rules? I'd like to get started building since I have a tendency to go overboard thinking up backstory stuff.
Orelius, have you decided on an AP and character creation rules? I'd like to get started building since I have a tendency to go overboard thinking up backstory stuff.
Yeah, as do I.
I guess it will be Rise of the Runelords AP and 25 point buy.
Hrm, okay.
Any particular races allowed / not allowed? Two traits including Campaign? Your own interest in the Siege Marshal makes me think that guns will be around. How common? Any other special rules to be aware of?
I... might just be able to come up with something fairly interesting, though I'm not sure I want to mess with MCA's when I'm still working at figuring out how to build character sheets (that are actually correct) without using a program. XD Let's see here...
GM, would you permit the Angelic Knight?
Yes, but I am changing the Cassisian to an angelic humanoid, but using the cassisian's base statistics (except Str = 12 instead), because the idea of a giant sentient winged helmet is incredibly, incredibly creepy to me.
Hrm, okay.
Any particular races allowed / not allowed? Two traits including Campaign? Your own interest in the Siege Marshal makes me think that guns will be around. How common? Any other special rules to be aware of?
Basically, standard Golarion rules, except that deals with outsiders are much more common, to the point where pretty much every person has an extraplanar being bound to them. Using the standard Golarion guns setting ('emerging guns', I think it is).
No traits, except for one campaign trait, and you instead get a bonus feat at 1st level. This is because, while traits are meant to spur character development, the varying power between them ends up making it so that people force themselves into certain backstory archetypes in order to get the best traits. I will still be expecting good backstories, however.
Honestly, I wasn't so big on having a helmet as a companion, either... XD So that's probably a good move.
Also, this.
Honestly, I wasn't so big on having a helmet as a companion, either... XD So that's probably a good move.
Also, this.
That's a bit *too* powerful for... Pretty much anything. Just play an Aasimar Angelic Knight and take the Eldritch Heritage (celestial) feat chain.
I guess I'm adding a no-templates rule - though any psionic, featured, uncommon, or core race will be fine.
That wasn't really a request, just me pointing out another angelic companion creation. XD
Working on my Dreamweaver's crunch, but quick question which maybe the GM or OceanShieldWolf can answer:
"The dreamweaver casts arcane spells drawn from the bard spell list, and otherwise prepares and casts spells as a bard equal to the dreamweaver’s level. In addition, the dreamweaver adds the following summoner spells to his list at the indicated levels"
That's added to the Bard Spell List, right? Not added to Spells Known? It seems like it's written that they should just be added to the Spell List, but I wanted to make sure. The bard/dreamweaver doesn't get very many Spells Known and I wouldn't want to be missing any.
Aww, are you sure? I thought it rather interesting to have a sentient helmet. Like Master Chief and Cortana. Sounded like a really interesting playstyle. Plus I can't actually wear it until level 4 or 8; until then it just hovers.
So I must say the Siege Marshal intrigues me.
I have another question about this whole thing. The Apparition doesn't use Strength or Constitution because it's partially incorporeal, which is neat, but it doesn't explicitly say which stats to use in place of those.
It says to use Cha instead of Str for Skill Checks. And I figured that Fort Saves and HD are probably Cha as well, and that attacks are most likely Dex. But I could see an argument being made either way for Damage.
[EDIT] Actually I have a few questions / comments, so I'm going to register and post them right on the Discussion for the Apparition. HEADS UP, OSW. :P
I have another question about this whole thing. The Apparition doesn't use Strength or Constitution because it's partially incorporeal, which is neat, but it doesn't explicitly say which stats to use in place of those.It says to use Cha instead of Str for Skill Checks. And I figured that Fort Saves and HD are probably Cha as well, and that attacks are most likely Dex. But I could see an argument being made either way for Damage.
[EDIT] Actually I have a few questions / comments, so I'm going to register and post them right on the Discussion for the Apparition. HEADS UP, OSW. :P
I'm going to say that everything STR and CON is replaced by CHA.
Aww, are you sure? I thought it rather interesting to have a sentient helmet. Like Master Chief and Cortana. Sounded like a really interesting playstyle. Plus I can't actually wear it until level 4 or 8; until then it just hovers.
alright, I guess. You can have a helmet for an eidolon.
You may start posting character concepts, backstory, crunch, whatever!
20 point buy
1 campaign trait
1 bonus feat
must play a Summoner, first worlder, or any MCA that uses the base summoner.
Rise of the Runelord AP, probably with the encounter CRs raised because of all the extra units.
So if straight summoner no archetype ?
So if straight summoner no archetype ?
Hm... I guess I'll go back on that rule and just say 'no Synthesists'.
Ok
I'm going to say that everything STR and CON is replaced by CHA.
Okay cool. I had a couple other notes anyway so I sent them to OSW and he forwarded them to Elghinn Lightbringer. It might involve a couple of changes to my crunch, but it shouldn't be anything particularly major. I'll get the fluff and crunch up tomorrow, with the note that the crunch may change slightly.
@YoricksRequiem: Elghin said he'd get back to me tonight. Thanks for picking up those not-so-clear mechanics, we'll clean up the language and update the Dreamweaver page...
Excellent. Quick question. At level 4 or 8, the Angelic Knight can wear his Cassian and gain some of its abilities. Before that, can he just wear it but receive no abilities? Its a staple ability of cassians, that others can wear them. Anyway.
Name: Purist Thunderwrath
Race: Human Male (45)
Class: Angelic Knight
Alignment: LG
Backstory: Born Alendar of Ken, Thunderwrath became and spent virtually his entire life in service to the order of the Hellknights, rising through the ranks due to fervor, skill and courage. When the call came to enter the Worldwound, he always answered, until by age fourty he had known only the blood, horror and tragedy of the Worldwound. Something happened curing his final crusade- a massacre, a battle, a mistake, none else survived who could have given more detail. Alendar emerged changed, a winged helmet of red and gold upon his head, along with a new name: Thunderwrath, Purist of the Omniscience. Leaving the wound and the service of the Hellknights, he travels Golarion preaching the teachings of the Omniscience, and putting them into practice wherever evil and ignorance led.
Why he's level one: As a part of his change, Thunderwrath lost the hard-earned abilities of a Hellknight; he is but a shadow of the warrior he once was. He does not regret this in the slightest.
Sheet
Quick suggestion, instead of RotR, how about we start off with a simple Pathfinder scenario? I've been running a RotR game for a year and we're only about halfway through the first book. Don't worry, I won't metagame and I haven't been reading ahead.
Excellent. Quick question. At level 4 or 8, the Angelic Knight can wear his Cassian and gain some of its abilities. Before that, can he just wear it but receive no abilities? Its a staple ability of cassians, that others can wear them. Anyway.
Name: Purist Thunderwrath
Race: Human Male (45)
Class: Angelic Knight
Alignment: LG
Backstory: Born Alendar of Ken, Thunderwrath became and spent virtually his entire life in service to the order of the Hellknights, rising through the ranks due to fervor, skill and courage. When the call came to enter the Worldwound, he always answered, until by age fourty he had known only the blood, horror and tragedy of the Worldwound. Something happened curing his final crusade- a massacre, a battle, a mistake, none else survived who could have given more detail. Alendar emerged changed, a winged helmet of red and gold upon his head, along with a new name: Thunderwrath, Purist of the Omniscience. Leaving the wound and the service of the Hellknights, he travels Golarion preaching the teachings of the Omniscience, and putting them into practice wherever evil and ignorance led.
Why he's level one: As a part of his change, Thunderwrath lost the hard-earned abilities of a Hellknight; he is but a shadow of the warrior he once was. He does not regret this in the slightest.
SheetQuick suggestion, instead of RotR, how about we start off with a simple Pathfinder scenario? I've been running a RotR game for a year and we're only about halfway through the first book. Don't worry, I won't metagame and I haven't been reading ahead.
He's... Don't play a DotA 2 character. Especially since this guy's my main.
saying yes to the Cassisian-wearing and yes to the scenario. I'd like to test out these characters and my GMing skillz before we get to such a long campaign.
(seriously, how is RotRL so long? There's only 20 levels for characters.)
Are you sure? Sheet's done and everything.
Woo.
Less 'RotRl is so long' and more 'PBP is so slow'.
@Sending Elghinn's answers to YoricksRequiem's questions to Orelius and YoricksRequiem via PM.
Are you sure? Sheet's done and everything.
Woo.
Less 'RotRl is so long' and more 'PBP is so slow'.
Heh, that's true.
if you don't make sure that people do at least 1 post per day.I am very sure. At least change the name.
Mmm, aye. I might change class; on closer inspection, this Paladin edges very close to fighter-without-bonus-feats. In return for no lay-on-hands and a slower Smiting progression, I get a helmet... with a neutered pool of evolutions to pick from, and no information on its dog/dove/child alternate forms.
Mmm, aye. I might change class; on closer inspection, this Paladin edges very close to fighter-without-bonus-feats. In return for no lay-on-hands and a slower Smiting progression, I get a helmet... with a neutered pool of evolutions to pick from, and no information on its dog/dove/child alternate forms.
a great many MCAs are like that; it's one of the troubles of combining such varied classes. You might consider a Siege Marshal if you still want a martial character, or the Life Giver. Also, there's the Empyreal Knight archetype of the paladin, which is basically an Angelic Knight with more bonuses, summon monster, and Lay on Hands progression (don't quote me on that last part, though). That might be close to what you're looking for - I could also give you a Cassisian to wear at 1st level if you want it very badly.