Lycanthrope Template size modifiers?

[Adam Chapman 109]

If you take a basic tiger for example it has a 23 STR +4BAB giving it an 11 CMB, but the tiger is also Large sized.

So my question is do you have to add a size modifier to the creature, to calculate its base stats? Also in hybrid form, what kind of stat changes (if any) are applied to a PC to signify this change?

It's hard to imagine a PC character going from Med sized to Huge (over 16 feet/ 3,200 pounds)without some sort of AC/Dex nerf or CMD/CMB buff.

Thanks for your input!

[Archaeik]

If your question is only about Attack/AC/CMB/CMD adjustments, I'm confident those occur.

Edit:
Lycanthropes

Ability Scores wrote:

+2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms.

AC wrote:

In hybrid or animal form the lycanthrope has the natural armor bonus of the base animal increased by +2.

[Adam Chapman 109]

Archaeik wrote:

If your question is only about Attack/AC/CMB/CMD adjustments, I'm confident those occur.

Edit:
Lycanthropes

Ability Scores wrote:

+2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms.

AC wrote:

In hybrid or animal form the lycanthrope has the natural armor bonus of the base animal increased by +2.

Yeah I am curious because no monster seems to have size adjustments added to them, at least through the SRD

[Mojorat]

This appears to be intended you get the base stats of the animal. A halfling wear tiger would get the tigers strength. It seems to be intentional.

[Adam Chapman 109]

Mojorat wrote:

This appears to be intended you get the base stats of the animal. A halfling wear tiger would get the tigers strength. It seems to be intentional.

So then no size modifiers are applied when shape changing?

[HJ]

Adam Chapman 109 wrote:

If you take a basic tiger for example it has a 23 STR +4BAB giving it an 11 CMB, but the tiger is also Large sized.

So my question is do you have to add a size modifier to the creature, to calculate its base stats? Also in hybrid form, what kind of stat changes (if any) are applied to a PC to signify this change?

It's hard to imagine a PC character going from Med sized to Huge (over 16 feet/ 3,200 pounds)without some sort of AC/Dex nerf or CMD/CMB buff.

Thanks for your input!

First off - a lycanthrope can only shift 1 size step; so a medium character can become a large animal (eg tiger), but a halfling (or other small PC) cannot become a weretiger (or any were creature greater than medium size)

Secondly - size mods to AC/to hit/CMD/CMB are applied as normal (see stats for weretiger). Actual Str/Dex is based on the base/creature strength + template adjustments

Quote:

PRD

Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.

Also note that in Pathfinder Change shape is based on Polymorph which means any belt/headband that adjusts your stats is carried over into your new shape.

Quote:

PRD

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.

[Mojorat]

Pretty sure the size step bit ie based on the lycanthrope not the animal. Ie a hill giant wereboar can't infect a halfling.

[HJ]

Mojorat wrote:

Pretty sure the size step bit ie based on the lycanthrope not the animal. Ie a hill giant wereboar can't infect a halfling.

Nope - its based on the animal size

Quote:

PRD

Size and Type: The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of animal (referred to hereafter as the base animal) within one size category of the base creature's size. A lycanthrope's hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger.

(emphasis mine)

[Adam Chapman 109]

HJ wrote:

Mojorat wrote:

Pretty sure the size step bit ie based on the lycanthrope not the animal. Ie a hill giant wereboar can't infect a halfling.

Nope - its based on the animal size

Quote:

PRD

Size and Type: The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of animal (referred to hereafter as the base animal) within one size category of the base creature's size. A lycanthrope's hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger.

(emphasis mine)

In the case of a Dire lycanthrope, it says to increase the base animal's size category by 1 though. So in the case of a tiger which is large, it would be moved to huge sized.

Does this mean you wouldn't be able to shape change anymore? Or would you just ignore that part of the dire template?

[Mojorat]

It means the only dire were tigers are giants.