Definition of "base creature"

[Adam Chapman 109]

In templates and the such it often, if not always, refers to a base creatures stats. In the case of a PC what does this mean exactly in terms of what you include in these stats?

Would this include ability modifications from other templates, tomes, and natural levels?

As an example a Dire weretiger would have a total of 36 strength in animal form, but if the PC had higher STR than this with the addition of other magical templates, tomes, items that would mean his STR wouldn't change past the normal +2 correct?

Also considering this would take a PC from med sized to huge sized would he not also, not gain any benefit/disadvantage from this size modification due to the fact the hybrid form's stats are worse?

Thanks for your help!

An example of the stat block including tomes/template
Tiger + Dire template : PC + Tome/templates
Str 31------------------36
Dex 17------------------18
Con 25------------------30
Int 2-------------------8
Wis 16------------------14
Cha 10------------------8

[wraithstrike]

The base creature is whatever you are adding the template to. As an example if you add the vampire template to a human, then the human is the base creature.

So if the human is level 3 fighter then the base creature is a level 3 human fighter.

If you are using a strange template that gives you a specific score instead of using modifiers to your score then you should use that specific example. Most template will add or subtract from ability scores not just say your strength is now 36, as an example.

[Adam Chapman 109]

wraithstrike wrote:

The base creature is whatever you are adding the template to. As an example if you add the vampire template to a human, then the human is the base creature.

So if the human is level 3 fighter then the base creature is a level 3 human fighter.

If you are using a strange template that gives you a specific score instead of using modifiers to your score then you should use that specific example. Most template will add or subtract from ability scores not just say your strength is now 36, as an example.

I suppose I should have been more specific, sorry about that. I meant in terms of the lycanthrope template, which gives you the stats (if better) of a specific creature.

[wraithstrike]

I don't know what a Dire Template is so I will just stick with a normal lycanthrope.

Let's say a human lycan with no magic items has a strength of 12. The animal form makes it a 16.

If he later finds a belt to add +2 strength his human form would have 14 and the animal form would have 18.

If his human form started off with 18 then his animal form will also start with 18 since that 18 is better than the 16 the animal form has. The +2 belt gives him a +20 in both forms.

Otherwise you would just have lycanthropes shapechanging and then putting on magic items to bypass the limitation.

[Adam Chapman 109]

wraithstrike wrote:

I don't know what a Dire Template is so I will just stick with a normal lycanthrope.

Let's say a human lycan with no magic items has a strength of 12. The animal form makes it a 16.

If he later finds a belt to add +2 strength his human form would have 14 and the animal form would have 18.

If his human form started off with 18 then his animal form will also start with 18 since that 18 is better than the 16 the animal form has. The +2 belt gives him a +20 in both forms.

Otherwise you would just have lycanthropes shapechanging and then putting on magic items to bypass the limitation.

Yeah I know that, I was just curious as to what the term base creature refers to. It makes a large difference if "base" means "without external modifiers" or if it includes them.

If you have a 36 strength with a tome of +7 and a template of +4 STR, both of these are technically magical effects. So would they be counted under the definition of "base" or not? because that would mean you would have a 25 STR which could be boosted to 31 though shape changing, or you have a 36 (with magic) which cannot.

[tkul]

Tomes are a typed bonus so I'd say they're not "base". Base would be your starter stats + any hit die increases. It's really moot though when it comes to stats. They're going to have the magical effects added in regardless. As far as I know none of the stat bonus items or effects are limited by types.

[Adam Chapman 109]

tkul wrote:

Tomes are a typed bonus so I'd say they're not "base". Base would be your starter stats + any hit die increases. It's really moot though when it comes to stats. They're going to have the magical effects added in regardless. As far as I know none of the stat bonus items or effects are limited by types.

So that would mean if a character had 36 str with a +7 stat tome and and a +4 STR template, when reffering to the "base stats" of that character at 20th level (if all 5 points were put into STR) it would be 25 STR then?

Thanks a lot for your input, I'm just trying to clarify it.