Wildshaped Awesome Blow (Brother of the Seal)

[BadBird]

So here's a weird, maybe fun question:

A Druid 4 / Monk 1 / Brother of the Seal 4 with shaping focus turns into a huge animal, and then smacks a foe with awesome blow...

Assuming he slams his target laterally through his threatened squares, does he get an AoO? In effect, since he's only disallowed from throwing the target closer, can he essentially whack him with his 'right' into a blow from his 'left?' Can he then vicious stomp the poor goon as it falls prone?

[Chess Pwn]

You'd get vicious stomp for sure if the guy falls prone in a threatened square.
But I don't see anything saying you get an attack of opportunity from the movement. I did a quick search on it and can't find anything saying you get one from that. So only a hit once he lands.

[BadBird]

For that matter, is there anything stopping you from slamming someone up into the air, or down into the (object) floor? Or ... up into the (object) ceiling?

Because slamming someone into the roof and having them 'break the object', then fall back to the floor in a prone pile and get stomped on makes me smile a lot.

[Archaeik]

Knocking them upwards could be interesting, but I'd apply the double movement cost rule for moving up at an angle of greater than 45 degrees. (essentially it just becomes a trip by a different name since they don't go high enough to take falling damage)

The problem is, neither of those directions seem intended by the feat, although I don't see RAW that prevents it.

Make the monk a maneuver master and I get the image of Shoryuken!

[BadBird]

Archaeik" wrote:

Knocking them upwards could be interesting, but I'd apply the double movement cost rule for moving up at an angle of greater than 45 degrees. (essentially it just becomes a trip by a different name since they don't go high enough to take falling damage)

Well if you want to get a vicious stomp and you're only medium size, up or down keeps them adjacent... and in theory down into floor (object) triggers more hurt.

Archaeik wrote:

Make the monk a maneuver master and I get the image of Shoryuken!

It's a drag that Brother of the Seal requires flurry of blows, so no maneuver master. Eventually though a Brother of the Seal can use awesome blow with flurry of blows or a vital strike, which could really, really hurt.

I'm imagining a druid 4 / brother of the seal 8 /monk 1 with monk's robe, wildshaped to huge size, with the +1 size unarmed strike bonus from BoTS:

Move up and vital strike (crazy unarmed strike), plus awesome blow (crazy unarmed strike), into the floor (domino strike), with a vicious stomp (crazy unarmed strike).

[dwayne germaine]

I am relatively certain that forced movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, however I have seen people play that it does. I would reason that the developers did not intend for Awesome Blow to essentially grant an attack of opportunity to the user almost every time they hit with it.

[Archaeik]

The AoO is not from the movement, but falling prone (Vicious Stomp).

Since the maneuver only ever moves the target 10ft, it's quite plausible to reliably set up this combo.

[dwayne germaine]

It all comes down to how flexible your DM is with the rules. Amongst the people I play with the generally accepted consensus is that when a creature is forcibly moved with a push effect(Awesome Blow is one example but there are others), each square of movement must result in the victim being farther away. This often means that the creature being hit with Awesome Blow is no longer within reach of the attacker once the 10 feet of movement is done.

In general this is the the players benefit as they are much more likely to be facing larger enemies than smaller ones (and they are far less likely to have Awesome Blow) but I can see how some DMs would want to use this as a "dirty trick" against the players.

[Archaeik]

Awesome Blow (Combat) wrote:

This creature can send opponents flying.

Prerequisites: Str 25, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, size Large or larger.

Benefit: As a standard action, the creature may perform an awesome blow combat maneuver. If the creature's maneuver succeeds against a corporeal opponent smaller than itself, its opponent takes damage (typically slam damage plus Strength bonus) and is knocked flying 10 feet in a direction of the attacking creature's choice and falls prone. The attacking creature can only push the opponent in a straight line, and the opponent can't move closer to the attacking creature than the square it started in. If an obstacle prevents the completion of the opponent's move, the opponent and the obstacle each take 1d6 points of damage, and the opponent is knocked prone in the space adjacent to the obstacle.

Just pointing that RAW does not require the movement to be "away", just "not closer".

It's not unreasonable to agree on houserules, but I don't want anyone to think they can't (or shouldn't) optimize in this way.

[dwayne germaine]

I am just saying to expect it to be ruled in various ways if you play at more than one table.
Are you even sure that a character can get this feat without houserules? One of the prerequisites for it is to be large sized. I would love it if I could find definitive proof that my Alchemist can take it. Sure he can only use it when enlarged and under effect of the mutagen but it's too good to not take if it is legal, even if the push movement thing works the way I have been led to believe it does.

[Archaeik]

Brother of the Seal

They get it as a class feature.
What I will concede is that additional materials do need to be approved by the GM.

Regarding taking this feat normally. Again, it is a general provision that the GM needs to approve taking Bestiary feats. (but there's nothing particularly wrong with doing so)
Different GMs might require Enlarge Person + Permanency, or possibly only "reliable use" such as that mutagen power.
If this is for official play, my guess is that it's off-limits.

[dwayne germaine]

Thanks, 4 levels is probably more of a dip than I want to take with that character away from Alchemist. I won't be able to take the feat from the Bestiary either since our greater group (with 3 games running in the same world) uses the convention that the more restrictive interpertation of a rule that could go either way applies (so I would actually have to be large to take Awesome Blow as it stands from the Bestiary).