I am wondering how to reconcile the fact that a non human aasimar or tiefling loses its base race abilities with them still living in the culture or that it is an innate part of what the race is for example a tiefling kitsune apparently cant transform into a human form unless they take spellcaster levels or a tengu aasimar that doesn't know how to use all swords. This has really been bugging my players and it also has started to bug me because it doesn't seem to make much sense except in the name of balance.
It's not "losing" it's base race abilities. Because it's not a kitsune, it's an asimar that just happens to have a fox head.
Or you could avoid all of this nonsense by going with the original intention and keeping them to Human form only.
Keep in mind that the Human form Aasimars don't have all of the Human traits either.
LazarX wrote: It's not "losing" it's base race abilities. Because it's not a kitsune, it's an asimar that just happens to have a fox head.
Or you could avoid all of this nonsense by going with the original intention and keeping them to Human form only.
Keep in mind that the Human form Aasimars don't have all of the Human traits either.
I understand that but it makes it hard to explain it in story of a character not being able to use those kinds of things when it is still living in the culture which teaches them the same way.
SkyHawthorn wrote: LazarX wrote: It's not "losing" it's base race abilities. Because it's not a kitsune, it's an asimar that just happens to have a fox head.
Or you could avoid all of this nonsense by going with the original intention and keeping them to Human form only.
Keep in mind that the Human form Aasimars don't have all of the Human traits either.
I understand that but it makes it hard to explain it in story of a character not being able to use those kinds of things when it is still living in the culture which teaches them the same way. Because not everything is a matter of teaching. You either have the talents, or you don't.
LazarX wrote: SkyHawthorn wrote: LazarX wrote: It's not "losing" it's base race abilities. Because it's not a kitsune, it's an asimar that just happens to have a fox head.
Or you could avoid all of this nonsense by going with the original intention and keeping them to Human form only.
Keep in mind that the Human form Aasimars don't have all of the Human traits either.
I understand that but it makes it hard to explain it in story of a character not being able to use those kinds of things when it is still living in the culture which teaches them the same way. Because not everything is a matter of teaching. You either have the talents, or you don't. That is true. It is not like either race is running around with a bonus feat and +1 skill point per level.
The effect of the celestial/fiendish energy that makes them an aasimar/tiefling interferes with the ability to fully assimilate into the culture. They're treated as an outsider so they pick up on the traits of their outsider heritage just as any other planetouched would. So, to explain the Kitsune Aasimar not being able to shapeshift, the celestial power of their heritage conflicts with that particular ability. Tengu Aasimar don't feel "fully connected" to the sword-play heritage of the Tengu so, whereas picking up a sword is as natural as breathing for most other Tengu, this one just doesn't feel it.
Or it could just be like alternate racial traits. It makes sense to say that Tengu love swordplay as a culture, but it doesn't make sense to say that absolutely every Tengu knows how to use swords, which is why some Tengus hone their claws. If you have a Tiefling with the maw or claw alternate ability, he suddenly doesn't stick out so much.
Ultimately, I like to think that the cultural racial traits are largely true, but with enough variation that it wouldn't be completely unrealistic to meet a Tengu who couldn't use a sword. If it really bugs you though, trade things out. Assuming this is a home game you can give an Aasimar or Tiefling whatever traits you want, assuming you swap something that is roughly equal.
hgsolo wrote: Or it could just be like alternate racial traits. It makes sense to say that Tengu love swordplay as a culture, but it doesn't make sense to say that absolutely every Tengu knows how to use swords, which is why some Tengus hone their claws. If you have a Tiefling with the maw or claw alternate ability, he suddenly doesn't stick out so much.
Ultimately, I like to think that the cultural racial traits are largely true, but with enough variation that it wouldn't be completely unrealistic to meet a Tengu who couldn't use a sword. If it really bugs you though, trade things out. Assuming this is a home game you can give an Aasimar or Tiefling whatever traits you want, assuming you swap something that is roughly equal.
Thank you everyone so far your advice is very helpful. From what Im reading, it is mainly a matter of making sure my players understand how to make the character fit into the overall culture. I think I will be able to work with this now.
The thing is biologically there is no connection to an asimar and their parents ergo there is nothing to reconcile.
Although, funny enough, you can have an oread that is more like a dwarf than other oreads, since if you take the Dwarf-Blooded feat you get the Slow and Steady and Stonecunning dwarf racial features.
Here's how I've reconciled and rationalized the "plane-touched" races. First off, it's not based on heredity as we understand it. Just as with Sorcerer bloodlines, you don't necessarily have an ancestor of the given origin; it could involve an outsider exuding great power in the vicinity of an ancestor (especially if this ancestor was already carrying a child). For example, to save a pregnant mother, one could summon an Angel to heal her and the combination of the summoning ritual and the celestial healing exposes the unborn child to large amounts of Heavenly energies.
In any case, regardless of how they are exposed to it, the energy isn't passed down by normal genetic processes as we know them. It's more like a "contamination" (for lack of a better word) attached to the person. This contamination simply sits there, inert, being passed down for several generations until something primes it into action and then it goes about drastically re-arranging the existing genetic code of the person it's attached to when it gets activated. In some cases, it will result in a full-blown plane-touched race (ie. an Aasimar). I'd suspect this results when it activates early in the pregnancy and has plenty of time to significantly re-code the child's genetics. If it is delayed to late pregnancy, that can result in a Scion. Likely, if it is activated after birth, it may result in a Sorcerous bloodline instead which may be actively pursued (taking the Sorcerer class) or passively pursued (Eldritch Heritage). As to what forces "prime" the planar energy, it could vary from exposure to another source of the same energy to just simple spontaneous activation.
In other words, when you're an Aasimar, even if you're born of Human parents, your Human genetics have been re-arranged from exposure to the strong celestial energy that's "attached" to, but not strictly a part of, your genes so you're born not as a Human. This means your instincts, intuitions, the very foundation of your personality, are fundamentally different from other Humans which results in radically different mental growth patterns, even if exposed to the same cultural and sociological stimuli.
this may be too high a cost for many, but aasimars actually can have some of their parents stuff... the racial alternative "scion of humanity" makes them count as human (which is counter-intuitive if you're trying to make it more kitsune-esque) but that qualifies them for the racial heritage feat... with that they can chose racial archetypes, traits, feats, favored class bonuses, etc as if they were that race (so a kitsune wouldn't gain the ability to take human form, but could take the feat for fox form, or magic tail or whatever).
Since this assumes Non-human Aasimars it can't be PFS so you may have some options. Consider talking to your GM and subsituting some of the racial abilities of the Aasimar for racial options from your "parent" race. Losing spell-like ability or skilled for kitsune magic or a shapechange effect might work for the GM. Also consider as was suggested a modified scion of humanity that works for kitsune.
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