| williamoak |
Hello to all,
I'm going to be starting GM-ing next year, and I'm starting to think more seriously about my GM-ing role. I've been playing oneshots with friends in a simpler system (dungeon world) to get a feel, but I'll be starting my first campaign (in pathfinder of all things) soon.
I'll be playing with relative strangers, which has some advantages & disadvantages. But one thing I thought would be useful would be to make a set of rules for myself (and to show to players) to give them a better idea of how I will GM and how I hope they will treat the game.
So what do the more experienced GMs think? I've tried to include a lot of the things I've heard were pertinent, broken zenith's blog (thank you broken zenith for all your resources) had a few recommendations. I guess I'm mainly worried of forgetting something/overlooking something.
P.S.: My first campaign will be dwarf-centric (with discworld inspired dwarves) so if anybody knows any dwarf/underdark centric APs I'd be interested in knowing, I'm always looking for inspiration.
| Mark Hoover |
Hey buddy, didn't see this thread til now. I like Da Rules though I immediately had a concern about 8/Goons. Since there won't be any and ALL killing has consequence, then are you playing a Marvel Super Heroes style game where there's an actual mechanic to indiscriminate killing? Should I, if a player in your game, make my build centered on non-lethal damage?
I ask because if you don't use goons and all death has consequence then I'd build differently. However if then you get to have an entire world of crazed killer monsters who kill indiscriminately all the time to serve their needs, why is there no consequence on them? Sure there's heroes like me, but why not legions of crusaders or good dragons flying around and such?
Another point on goons is that #1 on the list is have fun. What happens if "having fun" for one of your players is whomping some goons? I actually got yelled at a few game sessions ago b/cause the PCs made it to level 5 but ONLY ever fought small, well-constructed fights that were CR = APL or greater. In other words, the level 5 guys wanted to feel their power and wail on some goblins once in a while.
I don't know about your players or your experience, but I can tell you that among my games every once in a while players want to just cut loose and churn through some bad guys. At level one this means a kind of boring CR 1/2 fight with 2 fire beetles. However by level 3 this can mean the party going toe to toe with a squadron of 6 kobold warrior 1. Sure, they'll shred the little beasties in a couple rounds, but during that time they'll get to go power attack/cleave and unleash massive damage; whip off great big burning hands spells and generally feel awesome.
As far as everything else I think it looks really cool. These rules and your posts on the boards show you as a great listener. This is one of the best skills to have as a GM. If you can really hear and absorb what your players are asking for you've got half the job done right there.
| williamoak |
As for all the rules past 7: I'm currently reflecting on those; I dont know how indisciminately I will apply them, and I've had similar concerns as you. I guess I have more concerns about "intelligent" goons (IE goblins, orcs, kobolds). I dislike the notion that some races are inherently evil and must be slain. However, les intelligent "goons" (IE animals, constructs, undead, heck even outsiders that cant techincally die) are perfectly fair game. I'll have to think about it.
| Mark Hoover |
Ok, I'll give you an example from my own, current game and then I'll be done on the goons thing. My current game centers on a megadungeon with kobolds and dragons. My players know this and the one guy running a paladin gave him a trait so he can switch easily between lethal and non-lethal damage w/his greatsword. He intended to do this so he can take prisoners and then question them when in the dungeon. This player has played a lot of classic D&D dungeons and megadungeons, so he's thinking the game is going to be one long, slow dungeon hack.
First game in the PCs get into trouble and need to rest in the dungeon. The first place they find seems promising except that it's also part of the hunting grounds of a pair of cave fishers. Now the party's really hurting. After yet another skirmish w/some kobolds (killing goons et al) they open a cell door to reveal...a comely female kobold?
Her name is Ozula. She's a kobold courtesan; one of many working out of a brothel in the dungeon. These women work both sides and are LN in alignment. They are just doing what they must to survive in the oppressive environment of the dungeon. The paladin player after the session said that Ozula was his favorite part of the game. Not only was the encounter unique but now it makes him think twice about just tearing into EVERY kobold he meets.
TLDR: the point of this whole thing was that by having goons for the party to plow through, it makes the set piece encounters that much more memorable. These goons can also help illustrate plot points and themes you want to by acting as the foil to the important NPCs.
| Grue |
Like anything else, you get better with experience. I wouldn't worry about forgetting something or overlooking something else. Or really overthinking the whole 'sitting down with a bunch of friends and playing a game' type aspect.
On that note, while your players may be strangers when you first sit down, get to know them. It isn't just your game, it's their game as well. Find out what they like and what isn't their cup of tea and tailor your game towards that.
On that note I have a little issue with William's rule #3- the GM controls everything up to the narrative but not the story (and the PCs of course). This is a mutual\shared activity. If you want to tell a story, write a book. While #3 has a bit more nuance than that, his example of what is out of combat is a bit flawed... a rogue is unlikely going to be able to sneak up on a BBEG with a sneak attack and take him out (first no attack action can take place out of combat...initiative even in a surprise round is always rolled first), but if your players find a supposed 'easy mode' button because you didn't either consider it beforehand or figure out how to roll with it, that's on you, not the players. Honestly, a BBEG who gets taken out by chump tactics isn't much of a BBEG anyway (he probably wasn't the BBEG after all... his boss might be unhappy with what the PCs did to his underling....), in other words you can shape the plot and narrative on the fly, but let the players have their wins.
The other thing to remember is the DM has total control of the environment\world. If players fall into certain habits and common 'unstoppable' tactics... what they can do, you can do in spades. This doesn't mean you're in competition with your players, but if the PCs have a certain amount of fame and\or the bad guys know they're coming it is not unreasonable for them to do a little prep work to tailor a countermeasure or two for the PCs. For instance they know one of the PCs is a heavily specialized cold spell slinging caster... it would not be unreasonable for the bad guys to put up protection from energy (cold) defenses or stay spread out in case of AoEs or whatnot. Have your setting\bad guys react to the PCs, not wait for the adventurers to show up in their particular spot to slaughter them when their room number comes up.
Past that, be familiar with the rules but know your game. What I mean by that is you should have enough to get by on rules calls without constantly referencing the book but whatever adventure you are planning for that session you should have prepped before you sit down for the session. If you know the plots and bad guys running around in your game, their rough capabilities, motivations, etc... even if your players go off the rails you can reasonably steer an entertaining session out of it (and even get them back between the lines) going ad lib. When players feel they can go in whatever direction they want with the plot (and the narrative shifts with them), or even make their own plots) they are more likely to take ownership of the game and get invested.
On the rules side of things, rule #2 is both bad and good advice. Running a game entails managing people to an extent and I've seen variations of rule #2 cause as many problems as it solves. As a rule of thumb, if I don't know a particular rule, I will look it up if I can do so under 1-2 minutes. If it is something that can wait that won't affect other player actions I'll delegate another player to look up the rule while I move the game along. If there are no particular rules (or they are obscure) I'll make a call (assign a dc, roll some dice, or otherwise establish a benchmark) and it's done. If a player has an issue with it I have them write it down during the session and I'll look at it post game. The key thing is to keep the game flowing as quickly as possible with a minimum of fuss.
That being said, you should have a reasonably solid grasp on the primary governing rules your PCs will be utilizing. If you have a trip built fighter in the party, you should know the trip mechanics beforehand. You should know how concentration rules (and spell pen) work for spellcasters. Threatened squares and the whole provoke an attack of opportunity ruleset (and acrobatics) for maneuver fighters. How a sneak attack is set up. Anything that will come up fairly often in the game.
Also you should be able to quickly figure out what your monsters can do and be able to suss out any special attacks, defenses or other qualities with glance at their stat block. That comes more with experience but if you are running a prepped adventure it just means to look over the critters and bad guys before the session. Look at any spells for the enemy casters, have a rough idea of what they will be doing or casting for the first 3 rounds of combat.
As a side note, if a stat block has a charged healing item under it's combat equipment, I almost invariably swap it out for another charged item of roughly equal value that they could use before or during combat unless they have a good reason to have a CLW potion (like no other healing available in their cabal). An enemy using anything short of a Heal spell in combat is wasting an action.
On William's Rule 10 I generally leave to the players to sort out. I tell my players to know what sort of action they are going to take before I call them in the initiative order, have their spell effects referenced on hand, and any other details such as magic item powers readily available. If they are waffling on a decision (and at a point they are wasting everyone's time) I'll give them 10 seconds or I have them automatically reserve to initiative 1. You only have to do that once or twice to speed up gameplay on the player's side of the screen and it indirectly develops players with poor system mastery to become a bit more familiar with the capabilities of their PCs.
A further note on player game mastery, is that I make them submit a sheet of their memorized spells of the day and ongoing spell effects as they change (if they have a duration of longer than 1 min\level). It keeps them honest as they use spells throughout the adventuring day (and a drawback isn't a drawback unless it is applied) and gives me a general idea of where certain bonuses are coming from.
On the other side of that coin, while I do tailor most encounters to the power level and capabilities of the PCs, players with poor game mastery tend to punish themselves. Their PCs do tend to die more often, sometimes resulting in the deaths of decent PCs with their failure to fill their role in the team. While I try to leave it to the players to sort out, I will offer advice or talk about what they could have done differently pre\post game. If they are building a really subpar PC I will interject to find out what sort of concept they are shooting for and try to guide them in the right direction.
Rule 7 on alignment, I've tried doing things that way over the years but now approach this the reverse direction... they are the alignment written on their sheet unless proven otherwise. It's for the simple reason the game possesses so many effects that depend on alignment of the target to determine status. And the fact that even LG adventurers are still fairly mercenary in deed even if they aren't in outlook. And some players just aren't that good or comfortable rping in character or taking the lead\initiative. I'm fine with that (some people are leaders and some aren't...some players like puzzles, others like rolling dice), there is no wrong way to play this game as long as it's fun for everyone but you might not have much to go on for the innate character of some PCs on whether or not they can use that holy sword or are affected by an Word of Chaos.
Finally on William's Rule 8- Goons... I have to disagree with in entirety if I'm understanding his point correctly. Not using goons is a bad idea. Pathfinder is still a bit of a game of resource management and quite a bit more lawless than the Wild West. If players aren't fighting goons they can blow their limited resources with a lot less hesitation since they know their encounters are both roughly equal to their power level and appropriately necessary for them to overcome to accomplish their goal. If players know on a metagame level they can blow their wad because every single encounter is important they generally will do so (as an aside, shoot for a 7 to 8 encounter 'adventuring day' or longer.... mooks don't have to be challenging fights but should chew up a resource or two).
On the author's belief that indiscriminate killing of goons will lead towards evil... it would if it was indiscriminate. However in most games I've ever run or played you don't earn that 'goon' label unless somehow they initiate hostility with the players. This isn't the modern world where you can call the police or expect that goblin who assaulted you to make its way through the justice system after you capture the little bugger via a sleep spell. The usual law of the land (nobles) would usually summarily execute anything that is a threat to the good common folk (i.e. those that pay them dues) and they certainly aren't objective in their application of the Law. Players have even less of a moral duty to provide more than that than even a posse did for horse thieves and murderers in the old west (were the nearest lawman could be hundreds of miles away).
| Zerbe |
One thing which I like to do is to edit / write certain passages to give one (maybe not combat oriented) character places to shine.
We always play with a group of real life friends , so I can get their characters in advance. Then I take a look at their stats possible spells and so on, and try to create parts where a character can shine.
I realized that this is important especially in combat heavy systems / campaigns. Because some players of our group like to build beautiful RP characters who play a teriary role in combat.