I've asked this within a thread in the "general" section, but I'm afraid that thread got buried, so I'll ask it again here.
I'm planning on DM-ing a group of two players through the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (but it could have been any non-Mythic adventure path), allowing the players to create Mythic characters. Due to time constraints, I'd prefer not to have to adjust anything on my end.
Does anyone have any experience trying something like this? I'd love to hear how it turned out for you.
What are the pitfalls I need to be aware of? I'm especially concerned about the abilities that have a clause vs. non-mythic enemies (like Mythic Hexes). How do you deal with them? Would it be fair to have every enemy with CR > APL receive the Mythic Companion feat for free so those powers won't work 100%?
Also, how would you handle the first levels? Start the PCs off at level 1 and hand them 2-4 mythic tiers immediately? Or start them out as lvl 2 tier 1 and try to keep the 2 levels : 1 tier balance?
I would, if possible, gently nudge them towards the "tier 3"-classes, classes that can contribute in most situations. For instance a Magus/Inquisitor combo is pretty damn viable. They're both useful in combat, they can spread skills between them since they both get lots of skill points, the inquisitor makes an excellent face with the Conversion inquisition, and they have an even balance of arcane and divine spells available.
I'd probably start the PCs at level 1 / tier 1 with higher than average point buy (perhaps 30 points) and give them double the maximum number of starting hit points. This allows for characters that are a little more well rounded and harder to put down, with a couple of tricks up their sleeves.
I wouldn't worry about abilities that have clauses for non-mythic until I saw how it played out in practice against the first couple encounters. Run the game as it is, and if you run into problems you can make small changes to subsequent enemies. Generally speaking a lot of the no save vs. non-mythic aren't really that powerful until you start to use action economy in your favor (e.g. hex + kill sleeping target), which is a lot harder with a smaller group. The exception I might make to that rule would be major bosses at the end of each chapter - who I could see giving a mythic rank or two (this requires only mild changes to their states).
I'd probably have them gain a mythic tier at the end of each book, putting them at tier 7 or so by the end of the adventure path.
I'd strongly advise one person take a divine caster of some kind. Not only do they bring early healing and status condition fixes, they also have a bit of meat up front and make it a little easier to run things as is. As Kudaku notes the inquisitor could be quite strong, though the problem is the inquisitor doesn't mesh very well with mythic due to swift action economy. You might consider turning surge into a non-action requiring ability. I've played through adventure paths with two players before using more conventional combinations (core fighter / core wizard), and it can be done, but it requires more GM modifications.
Don't forget that based on experience awards these guys will also be a level or two ahead of the norm before long - which is probably fine even with the mythic.
Overall I suspect things will be fairly swingy even with higher levels and some mythic. Small group dynamics always are, because each roll means a lot more. One failed save or botched attack can drop half the party, so it is a lot less forgiving. Generally speaking you have to play a little more careful, and a little less 'where angels fear to tread'.
If you know what your players are looking at playing I could probably provide more information.
Mythic tiers are a really large boost in power, they are probably worth 3 levels in power, not 2.
Mythic tiers were judged by the designers after the playtest to be worth approximately 1/2 of a level. My personal feeling is that is probably about right, with the first perhaps worth slightly more but the second and subsequent ones worth less. Overall I'd generally rather have a higher level regular character than a lower level mythic one.
Thanks for the responses. :)
I'm aiming to keep everything as close to RAW as possible, so 15-pts build (though I might allow 20), no gestalts, etc. My goal is to add just the right amount of Mythic to offset the disadvantage of having only two PCs.
Starting out at Mythic tier 2 would fix the action economy for them and give them some extra control + survivability, so at first glance it seems the obvious choice. However, I'm afraid that abilities like Absorb Blow (spend a surge, reduce damage received by 5/tier) would make them invincible at low levels.
They are pretty good at optimizing, so I'm not afraid they'll show up with "tier 6"-classes. Right now they are looking at a Human Seeker Sorceress (Archmage) and her Nagaji Fighter (Guardian) bodyguard.
The sorceress will be the party's face, max out UMD for divine magic items, and deal with traps (Seeker archetype).
The fighter will guard her. ;P
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One big thing that I recommend is eschew XP and set fixed leveling points based on the suggestions at the beginning of each chapter. With only two characters the XP divided between them will rocket them up in levels at first until the balance out about 2-3 levels above the assumed level. If you are also giving them mythinc tiers this may cause them to unbalance the game in their favor by the time they hit chapter two. This would be the case in any AP so the advice is not specific to Rise of the Runelords.
As far as mythic tiers go, I recommend 2-3 tiers at the beginning, perhaps as a prelude adventure or something and then hand out 1-2 each chapter until they hit 10 upon reaching Xin Shalast. If you hand them levels and find about 30 points over the chapters that can count as mythic trials then the only thing they will need to track is their trials and not worry about counting XP. Keep in mind, as stated above, that a mythic tier balances out as about half a level in power and with two characters they should be about 2-3 levels higher than the assumed APL for a party of four.
I've run plenty of games for small groups before and have seen what can happen when the right classes or party roles are not selected. I usually recommend a gestalt build for super small parties just so they have more versatility. The two roles that a party cannot do without is a front-line fighter/tank character. Someone needs to take the brunt of damage ad keep the enemies off the utility character, otherwise enemies will pile on and it gets messy. The other character is a trapspringer, so usually a rogue though there are other utility classes that can fill the role. It is a pain to deal with traps without a rogue in the party. Other party roles such as arcane support, healing, face, ranged combat can be supplemented easily enough, especially if you eschew the Use Magic Device rules and let anyone use any wands provided they know the command word.
As I've said, I've run a lot of games for parties as small as 2-3 so if there is any advice I can offer just ask.
the biggest issue is going to be action economy... two characters can only accomplish so much per round. all of the survivability gained from mythic will only go so far if they're getting 1 attack and 1 spell each round and a pack of enemies is getting 4-5 attacks and 1-2 spells...
class and feat selection can help quite a bit with this: if the sorceress takes the sylvan bloodline that'll add an animal companion to the mix (a whole extra turn each round). the fighter could switch to a paladin for swift action heals and (eventually) a divine bond animal companion, or to a beast rider cavalier for a more immediate companion. the paladin would also add some emergency healing and status removal, plus easier use of some good wands/scrolls. any class can increase their action economy by spending feats on: leadership (cohort); nature soul/animal ally/boon companion (full progression animal companion, limited options); or, skill focus[any knowledge]/eldritch heritage[arcane]/improved familiar (a familiar that can wield wands).
aside from improving action economy, i think you're on the right track... with only 2 PCs a 20 point buy definitely isn't a bad idea but i would definitely think twice about passing out mythic tiers faster than 1/2 levels.
@nate: Thanks, but Amazing Initiative should take care of the action economy problem, shouldn't it?
She is actually considering the sylvan bloodline. :)
I'm aiming at having them end up as lvl 16/tier 8.
@Joshua: Right with you on the fixed leveling points, that's how I always do it. How would you adjust treasure? Divide in half?
@nate: Thanks, but Amazing Initiative should take care of the action economy problem, shouldn't it?
No, because the spellcasters can't use it to cast spells, and the extra standard action doesn't mean much compared to multiple full round actions. There is also a noticeable difference between two long turns and four real turns broken up across a larger combat. Not being able to break up monster initiatives effectively can be difficult. Finally, amazing initiative costs points from a relatively small pool that are required to power the vast majority of mythic abilities. It is not the sort of thing you can afford to to every round or even nearly so.
everything peter said is exactly right.
in the playtest version amazing initiative was a much more potent ability (+20 init and you could spend 1 point for an extra turn at the init order without the +20 bonus)- that might have made up for it, even with the very limited pool. the finalized version (+tier to init, spend 1 mythic point for +1 standard action on turn, no extra spells) really does not.
a party of 4 will have no problem with them- they can position themselves so that squishies don't take many attacks at all and (even with 1 dedicated healer) they should kill at least 2 if not 3 goblins per round = a 2-3 round fight: burns 1-2 spells from the caster and front liners take on average 3-4 attacks (with relatively low success rate thanks to decent ACs).
a party of 2 will struggle to consistently kill 2/round, making it at least a 3 round fight. which'll burn 3 spells from your caster (more than half her spells/day). if your fighter can position himself to effectively shield the caster he'll take 6/4/2=12 attacks, which is probably still better than letting the sorc take half. with 'hard to kill' they probably won't actually kill the fighter, but its gonna be really tough going for the sorc after he drops.
mythic will definitely add a considerable amount of survivability, and powers like arcane surge or wild arcana will help with resource management, but action economy is just always gonna be an issue. its not insurmountable, but it is something to be aware of (and the increase in challenge will be more pronounced the more enemies there are, so BBEGs will tend to seem anti-climactic if you don't give them i little power bump or a couple of chumps for back up...). for wealth, don't nerf it too much- they're gonna burn through far more consumables than a normal party (and might end up with cohorts/familiars/animal companions that will need some gear)... try dropping it by 1/3 or 1/4 instead of 1/2 starting out (if that feels too high after a few levels you can always reduce it further moving forward from there).