Shield Master and Bashing, a stacking problem.

[Makarion]

Any idea how the Shield Master feat interacts with the Bashing enchantment?

Let's assume a spiked heavy shield +2 and strength 10. That would normally do 1d6+2 damage on a shield bash.

Now let's take the same shield and strength but add Bashing, a +1 equivalent enchantment. Does the damage now "reset" to 2d6+1? (I think that 2d6 is two sizes up from 1d6, but could be wrong.) Does it add an additional +1 to the existing enhancement bonus? [Note, that the feat doesn't actually list a type for the bonus, but enhancement seems a fair guess. Could be untyped, though.]

[RedDogMT]

A heavy, spiked shield deals 1d6 damage.
A heavy, spiked shield with Bashing would deal 1d10.

See http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#_weapon-size

[Umbriere Moonwhisper]

a heavy spiked shield deals 1d6

a heavy spiked shield with bashing deals 2d6

but you use the higher bonus of bashing or shield master, which in this case, is shield master

so 2d6+2

1d6
2d4
2d6

[Makarion]

How about the "+1 weapon" mentioned in the Bashing enchantment, though? How does that interact with the fact that Shield Master allows you to use the (armour) enchantment as a (weapon) enhancement?

[Umbriere Moonwhisper]

Makarion wrote:

How about the "+1 weapon" mentioned in the Bashing enchantment, though? How does that interact with the fact that Shield Master allows you to use the (armour) enchantment as a (weapon) enhancement?

you use the higher of the two, they don't stack

so the base Damage is 2d6+2

bashing will increase the damage die, but it won't affect the enhancement bonus because you have a higher bonus coming from a different source.

enhancement boni don't stack, you use the higher one, and the higher set of base damage dice

so 2d6+2

so it is effectively treated a bashing shield with a +2 enhancement bonus

[Makarion]

I agree that seems to be the intention, but since the bonus type of the +1 is not listed it's still in limbo for purposes of PFS. And rangers (and slayers) can get Shield Master at level 6, so it's plenty relevant.

Note: not actually relevant for me personally, since I don't play PFS, but I do like rules to be clear. Constant houseruling is wasteful.

Either way, Bashing is still 1d6 damage for a +1 enhancement, which seems fair enough. I guess that size-changing shenanigans may shift the balance a little, but I doubt it will get excessive.

[Umbriere Moonwhisper]

Makarion wrote:

I agree that seems to be the intention, but since the bonus type of the +1 is not listed it's still in limbo for purposes of PFS. And rangers (and slayers) can get Shield Master at level 6, so it's plenty relevant.

Note: not actually relevant for me personally, since I don't play PFS, but I do like rules to be clear. Constant houseruling is wasteful.

Either way, Bashing is still 1d6 damage for a +1 enhancement, which seems fair enough. I guess that size-changing shenanigans may shift the balance a little, but I doubt it will get excessive.

Bashing counts as a +1 weapon, which counts bashing's bonus as being an enhancement bonus if you look at the rules on magic weapons.

it requires a bit more reading

but enhancement bonuses don't stack

[RedDogMT]

Wait, how do you figure that a Heavy spiked shield goes from 1d6 to 2d6 when bashing is added? The medium weapon damage progression is:
1d2 --> 1d3 --> 1d4 --> 1d6 --> 1d8 --> 1d10 --> 1d12

A Medium Heavy Shield +2 with no spikes does 1d4+2. If you add Bashing, it changes to 1d8:
1d4+2 --> 1d6+2 --> 1d8+2

A Medium Heavy Spiked Shield +2 does 1d6+2, it would change to 1d10:
1d6+2 --> 1d8+2 --> 1d10+2

[The Sweater Golem]

RedDogMT wrote:

Wait, how do you figure that a Heavy spiked shield goes from 1d6 to 2d6 when bashing is added? The medium weapon damage progression is:

1d2 --> 1d3 --> 1d4 --> 1d6 --> 1d8 --> 1d10 --> 1d12

You aren't reading the chart you posted accurately. You read across, not down.

For a one size increase, a medium 1d6 weapon becomes 1d8 as a large weapon.

To do a second size increase, take the 1d8 over to the medium column again and read across. A 1d8 medium weapon becomes 2d6 as a large weapon.

So a two-size increase goes from 1d6 to 2d6.

[KainPen]

reddog 1d8 - goes to 2d6 medium to large. you don't ready the chart bottom to top you read it across. you find your medium damage on the chart, in this case 1d8 and then look at the large version of that dice on the oppsite side which is 2d6. ninja by golem

if you need further proof of this reddog, look at the iconic barbarian.
she uses a large bastardsword according to the way you are reading it, the damage should be 1d12, but she is listed at 2d8 in all entries, the way the rest of us are reading it.