Multiweapon fightning question

[wintersrage]

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks
with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13 , three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are
reduced by -2 with the primary hand and by -6 with off-hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a -6 penalty
on attacks made with its primary hand and a -10 penalty on
attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary
hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon
Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Special: This feat replaces the Two -Weapon Fighting
feat for creatures with more than two arms.

My question is if i have a multi-armed person say the Kasatha with this feat and then i decided i want to get improved two weapon fighting and greater two weapon fighting feats will the improved and greater two weapon fighting feats stack with multiattack fighting for the extra two attacks.

Would a 2 weapon fighter Kasatha at 20th level with 4 speed weapons have multiattack fighting, improved two weapon fighting and greater two weapon fighting have 13 attacks with no penalty other then the normal penalties for making more then 1 attack per round.

so it would be in a mythic campaign with finesse and mythic finesse and with a finesse weapon and a 38 dex +45/+45/+45/+43/+43/+43/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+35/+30.

[wintersrage]

bump

[Eric the Alesmith]

3 things.

1. Don't bump that fast. If you don't get an answer in DAYS, then maybe bump. 20 minutes... No. Just no.

2. I'm not sure about the improved/greater, though I would suspect they would not work that way. (It is multi-weapon, not two-weapon)

3. Multiple speed weapons do NOT stack. It is a haste-type effect. "This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell."

[Mojorat]

The key thing here is multi weapon fighti g does not change how imp twf or gtwf work at all. It does exactly what it says it does.

Lvl 2 kassath ranger 18 str bab +2 wielding a longsword is mainhand +2 offhand +2/+2/+2. At lvl 6 he's mainhand +6/+1 offhand +6/+6/+6/+1. Note imp twf works exactly the same here.

[HangarFlying]

In short, no.

[wintersrage]

but wouldn't the improved and greater just give the extra attacks just like they would for two weapon fighting mainly for the reason that multi weapon fighting replaces two weapon fighting for people with more then 2 arms.

[HangarFlying]

No. Multiweapon Fighting replaces a Two-Weapon Fighting. Since you no longer have Two-Weapon Fighting, you no longer have the prerequisites for Improved or Greater.

With multiple arms, you are getting the extra off-hand attacks immediately, instead of having to wait for the feats...that is why there aren't Improved or Greater Multiweapon fighting feats.

[Rhatahema]

HangarFlying wrote:

No. Multiweapon Fighting replaces a Two-Weapon Fighting. Since you no longer have Two-Weapon Fighting, you no longer have the prerequisites for Improved or Greater.

With multiple arms, you are getting the extra off-hand attacks immediately, instead of having to wait for the feats...that is why there aren't Improved or Greater Multiweapon fighting feats.

It's worth mentioning that Improved Multiweapon Fighting and Greater Multiweapon fighting did exist in 3.0/3.5, but were never republished in Pathfinder.

As far as not qualifying as having the two-weapon fighting, that's iffy. Multiweapon fighting states

Multiweapon Fighting wrote:

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

That's pretty open-ended wording. So maybe it only replaces your option of taking two-weapon fighting, but maybe it replaces every iteration of that feat for that character. So if another feat had two-weapon fighting as a prerequisite, it now has multiweapon fighting as a prerequisite in its place.

[Archaeik]

As was pointed out in another thread, there are a good number of feats that use TWF as a prerequisite that stylistically shouldn't be precluded just by the substitution of MWF for TWF.

Perhaps, they really would need a MWF version written up, but generally, that also implies a certain boost in power for them, similar to IMWF/GMWF.

It's easier just to let MWF qualify as a prereq given the sufficiently ambiguous meaning of "replaces".

[Are]

HangarFlying wrote:

No. Multiweapon Fighting replaces a Two-Weapon Fighting. Since you no longer have Two-Weapon Fighting, you no longer have the prerequisites for Improved or Greater.

With multiple arms, you are getting the extra off-hand attacks immediately, instead of having to wait for the feats...that is why there aren't Improved or Greater Multiweapon fighting feats.

To be fair, Multiweapon Fighting works exactly like Two-Weapon Fighting; all it does is to reduce penalties for attacks you could already make.

I would let MWF function as the prerequisite for ITWF and GTWF. In any case, each of the latter feats will only add 1 additional attack; they don't add one per offhand.

[wintersrage]

Wouldn't this be like some of the feats that are not the same feat of the prerequisite feat bust still count for meeting the prerequisite.

[wintersrage]

Is anybody able to get the attention of the rules team or the guys that handle rules clarification to answer this question for definite for me.

[Starglim]

wintersrage wrote:

Is anybody able to get the attention of the rules team or the guys that handle rules clarification to answer this question for definite for me.

You have done so by clicking the FAQ button.