One of my players is currently playing a cavalier and was thinking about taking a couple levels
of barbarian...
This got me thinking. He is a gnome cavalier on a wolf and when he can he has the wolf attack which requires a handle animal check(charisma based skill).
If he does dip into barbarian how can he get his wolf to attack while he is raging, if barbarians can't use charisma based skills while in rage???
Thanks in advance for any insight to this!
Is he riding the wolf when he attacks? Im pretty sure that is the ride skill rather than handle animal.
So making your combat trained mount attack is only a ride check and not a handle animal check?
Can anyone point this out in the rule book?
Sometimes reading pf rules makes my eyes bleed. More so with mounted combat. It is in the list of stuff under the ride skill and not adressed anywhere in the combat section.
Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.
Parsing the information the instructions for that probably should have been in the first section of mounted combat.
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That's correct, Handle Animal is not on the list of "exceptions" to Int/Cha/Dex skills you can use while raging.
However if he takes the Urban Barbarian archetype, he can make a Controlled Rage and still use Charisma based skills.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---b arbarian-archetypes/urban-barbarian
You still require a Handle Animal check to make a mount attack, as well as the Ride check to be able to also attack yourself (failing this means you need to hang onto the mount while it attacks, so you lose your action).
Firdt there is an entire chain of rage power that would be kind of useless if a raging mounted barbarian coukdnt have his mount attack.
There is a dc 10 ride check to get the mount to attack which is wholly seperate from the controll with your knees check at dc 5.
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It isn't a Ride check to make your mount attack. The Ride check is to control the mount during battle. You must make a Handle Animal check with the Attack trick to have a mount attack.
The barbarian class just does not mesh well with mount or Animal companion classes when it comes to raging.
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
So making your combat trained mount attack is only a ride check and not a handle animal check?
Can anyone point this out in the rule book?
I think directing it is separate from fighting, but this is probably the line they're using to make the opposite conclusion.
Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.
There's a good way around this: the defend trick.
Defend (DC 20): The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend another specific character.
So, if you charge into combat and smash something in the face, the critter with that trick will probably get the hint and try to smash it in the face with you without having to be told.
Other than the urban barbarian archetype is there anyway around this?
I guess this also brings up the question what exactly is "combat trained"?
I guess this also brings up the question what exactly is "combat trained"?
That one's answered at least.
Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.
As i commented on earlier, Reading through the mounted combat rules again just hurts my brain. I pulled that DC 10 thing out of the Ride skill. It does not actually appear to be explained anywhere. However, IT and controlling with your knees are both free actions. Which does not seem to imply there is a lot of concentration.
I do understand that the ride check does state that with a DC10 you can attack with your mount but I don't understand how or why you wouldnt also have to make a DC20 Handle animal check.
Because the DC 20 Handle Animal check is an out of combat dealy to train the Mount, not something you need to do every time it's going to do one of the Combat Trained Tricks.
Let's not confuse riding a creature (Ride skill) and giving it "simple" commands (Handle Animal). While you could use Handle Animal while riding it makes more sense to use the ride skill to make it do what you want. The "Handle an Animal" action is useful for commanding free standing animals around. A character that is bound and slung over a horses saddle can't be considered "riding" anymore than luggage is considered riding, so a handle animal check would make more sense in that case.
So lets look instead at the case in question: Actually riding a mount and telling it to attack. This requires a ride check. Why not also use the Handle Animal check? Because using both is redundant. These are two ways getting the same result. The one is just a bit more specialized (and faster for non-animal companions) since you actually need to be riding the creature to perform it.
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
Summary: A raging cavalier can use Ride skill as a free action to make his mount attack in combat while he is riding it. If he is not riding it, the raging cavalier must stop raging first or mount his ...erm... mount.
Thanks guys for all your responses!
it still seems that there is a little disagreement on how this all works out. But I think the majority all agree that the DC10 ride check is enough to get a combat trained mount mount to attack and that is good enough for me!
Thanks! Goose