Mythic Ice Storm save?

[Morhin]

Casting the augmented version of mythic ice storm causes one target to be paralyzed (as if by hold person).

Now, does this mean that ice storm suddenly gains the compulsion [mind-affecting] descriptors and a Will save for that target? Which seems utterly weird. Or is the target simply held fast for the duration of the ice storm?

What's your take on this mythic spell?

[blahpers]

If we took the reading that literally, the paralysis effect would only work on humanoids. That is likely not the intent.

The reference to hold person might have been intended to provide the mechanism for saving every round to break free. I would use the same saving throw as the ice storm spell and not treat the effect as a compulsion.

I wish they'd stop using "as if by some other spell or mechanic that conflicts in strange ways with this one". Every one of them seems to generate confusion. (Ha, confusion bomb was one of them; see that alchemist thread from a few weeks ago.)

[CWheezy]

Ice storm has no save in the base spell

[Morhin]

CWheezy wrote:

Ice storm has no save in the base spell

Exactly, and it was because of that I implied the other conclusion, that is, paralyzation until the end of the duration, which is a too strong spell power (a no save "save or die" effect).

Reading it the other way, like hold person implies a Will save (?) which is even more strange - a freezing mind-affecting compulsion?.

So I really don't know how to use this mythic spell in the upcoming WotR game.

[blahpers]

Well, boo. No idea then. The writer (or the editor) really dropped the ball on that one.

[thenobledrake]

Alrighty... so here is the way that, according to the grammar used, the paralysis effect functions:

The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.

That is the text of how the paralysis of hold person works - as for the save, we know that the DC to save against a spell works on a specific formula in all cases, so mentioning it redundantly is not needed.

Last, but not least, no, being frozen into a state of paralysis by ice does not equate to a mind-affecting compulsion - and mythic ice storm doesn't, grammatically, say that it does.

It only says that the paralysis is the same as that caused by hold person.

[Morhin]

thenobledrake wrote:

... Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. ...

Well, what kind of save is implied then? A Will save? Ice storm does not have a save, as we all know.

Common sense would put it as a Fortitude save, but that is not implied. Either it is no save, as the ice storm itself, or it is a Will save as with hold person.

The specific save formula is not the question here. The parent spell allows no saving throw, and the mentioned "as if by" spell has one.

If it boils down to a Will save to end a paralyzation effect caused by a spell of the evocation [cold] school, then that's an entirely new kind of save for me at least. :)

Hence, my question.

[Kimera757]

Until it gets errata'd, there's no answer. IMO, a Fortitude save (using the usual save DC calculation) is pretty reasonable, with a save each turn as a full-round action. And no, not a compulsion :)

[blahpers]

That's reasonable, but completely invented. Which is fine by me; if the writer didn't see fit to state what to do, it's the GM's job to fill in the gaps.