Item slots for a Dragon?


Rules Questions


I've been looking at the chart for item slots for non-humanoids and I was wondering where Dragons (True) fit on it?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items

Thanks


3.5's Draconomicon specified that dragons could use virtually all types of magic items (with examples of how they would wear certain types of items), except armor (no proficiency, plus it would need to be specially made barding) and weapons (lack of prehensile limbs and proficiencies, but could use if assuming a form with proper limbs).

I don't know if Paizo has specified how magic items and dragons interact for Pathfinder.

Grand Lodge

Are wrote:

3.5's Draconomicon specified that dragons could use virtually all types of magic items (with examples of how they would wear certain types of items), except armor (no proficiency, plus it would need to be specially made barding) and weapons (lack of prehensile limbs and proficiencies, but could use if assuming a form with proper limbs).

I don't know if Paizo has specified how magic items and dragons interact for Pathfinder.

They haven't, and they're not likely to. A lot of items don't play nice with either a draconic form or the size of the really big dragons. Note however that the more powerful dragons CAN take humanoid form for a period as long as they like. In that instance, they could use magic items normally just like a humanoid to make up for some of the weaknesses of taking a lesser form.

As a home rule, I would essentially rule that dragons are not subject to Arcane spell failure chance when casting their innate dragon spells. Don't ask me for rules citation on this, there aren't any to cite.


I would be cautious giving dragons items. If you use a decent portion of their wealth to equip stat boosting items, they will increase their CR substantially. I usually stick to cool consumables.

For fluff I say their enormous inherent magic messes up permanent item bonuses... Otherwise there isn't a reason a gold wyrmling shouldn't have +11 to every stat as a gift from dear old great wyrm dad.

Grand Lodge

Beopere wrote:

I would be cautious giving dragons items. If you use a decent portion of their wealth to equip stat boosting items, they will increase their CR substantially. I usually stick to cool consumables.

For fluff I say their enormous inherent magic messes up permanent item bonuses... Otherwise there isn't a reason a gold wyrmling shouldn't have +11 to every stat as a gift from dear old great wyrm dad.

Items that don't fit are usually the major block on this.


LazarX wrote:
Items that don't fit are usually the major block on this.

Tomes of stats have no such limit. A dragon can easily wear a belt or a circlet, and since they have a bajillion feats and a generous caster level (papa great wyrm that is), there's no reason they can't craft their own stat boosting items.

...or permanent greater magic fang +5 on every natural weapon.

I can't seem to find the rules on non-humanoid item slots, but I was under the impression if their anatomy allowed it, it was gravy.


There are rules for animal item slots based on the form factor of the animal in question (see Animal Archive). You might be able to extrapolate that to dragons. It's not RAW, of course.


Beopere wrote:

I would be cautious giving dragons items. If you use a decent portion of their wealth to equip stat boosting items, they will increase their CR substantially. I usually stick to cool consumables.

For fluff I say their enormous inherent magic messes up permanent item bonuses... Otherwise there isn't a reason a gold wyrmling shouldn't have +11 to every stat as a gift from dear old great wyrm dad.

Dragons even the oldest ones don't have that type of wealth if you go by the rules.


The Rich Grandpa rule could as easily be applied to grandchildren of 20th-level NPCs, but you still don't design encounters around it. Similarly, maybe there are dragons out there with ridiculously out-of-CR magic items, but those generally aren't the creatures a GM pits against their party.

A dragon has considerable treasure available to it already and (end rules discussion) might use some of that treasure to defend itself, but most prefer to hoard that wealth rather than wear it. Such external dependencies are mortal crutches unbecoming of a true dragon. They might invest in some sort of contingency item in case a pesky hero threatens or even slays it, but other than that armor and belts would just be demeaning.


Man I now need to design an encounter with a low level enemy whose grandpa is a retired level 20 adventurer.

With the added kick in the nuts that the items were custom crafted to only work for that guy or self destruct or something.


blahpers wrote:
A dragon has considerable treasure available to it already and (end rules discussion) might use some of that treasure to defend itself, but most prefer to hoard that wealth rather than wear it. Such external dependencies are mortal crutches unbecoming of a true dragon. They might invest in some sort of contingency item in case a pesky hero threatens or even slays it, but other than that armor and belts would just be demeaning.

"Such external dependencies are mortal crutches unbecoming of a true dragon. "

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to steal that line and use it on the player playing the (now Very Young) silver dragon (1 lev Sorcerer, 2 lev Monk - Master of many styles - Crane Style, 1 lev Cleric, Advanced Template) since he likes to see himself as a more traditional dragon unlike his brother (Wyrmling - 6 lev Sorcerer, king of their Kingmaker Kingdom, in a political Royal Marriage with a Blodeuwedd Druid).

I didn't specify but the question wasn't for what I stick on MY monsters, but for what my monsterous PCs sticks on themselves. :-)

Grand Lodge

Beopere wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Items that don't fit are usually the major block on this.

Tomes of stats have no such limit. A dragon can easily wear a belt or a circlet, and since they have a bajillion feats and a generous caster level (papa great wyrm that is), there's no reason they can't craft their own stat boosting items.

You never see such items in draconic stat blocks, so I'm going to assume that there is a reason. Part of it is draconic arrogance, they don't consider themselves needing such items given their stats as they are.

Or the reluctance to create dragon sized magic items that humanoids would have no use for. (There's no LOTR-style magic resizing of items.)


Stephen Ede wrote:
blahpers wrote:
A dragon has considerable treasure available to it already and (end rules discussion) might use some of that treasure to defend itself, but most prefer to hoard that wealth rather than wear it. Such external dependencies are mortal crutches unbecoming of a true dragon. They might invest in some sort of contingency item in case a pesky hero threatens or even slays it, but other than that armor and belts would just be demeaning.

"Such external dependencies are mortal crutches unbecoming of a true dragon. "

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to steal that line and use it on the player playing the (now Very Young) silver dragon (1 lev Sorcerer, 2 lev Monk - Master of many styles - Crane Style, 1 lev Cleric, Advanced Template) since he likes to see himself as a more traditional dragon unlike his brother (Wyrmling - 6 lev Sorcerer, king of their Kingmaker Kingdom, in a political Royal Marriage with a Blodeuwedd Druid).

I didn't specify but the question wasn't for what I stick on MY monsters, but for what my monsterous PCs sticks on themselves. :-)

Sound likes a pretty awesome game! I hope to hear tales about the dragon-lords of the Stolen Lands.


LazarX wrote:
Beopere wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Items that don't fit are usually the major block on this.

Tomes of stats have no such limit. A dragon can easily wear a belt or a circlet, and since they have a bajillion feats and a generous caster level (papa great wyrm that is), there's no reason they can't craft their own stat boosting items.

You never see such items in draconic stat blocks, so I'm going to assume that there is a reason. Part of it is draconic arrogance, they don't consider themselves needing such items given their stats as they are.

Or the reluctance to create dragon sized magic items that humanoids would have no use for. (There's no LOTR-style magic resizing of items.)

Magic items other than weapons and armor typically resize to fit the wearer. See "Size and Magic Items" in the Magic Items section of the PRD.


Quote:

Size and Magic Items

When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn't be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

There may be rare exceptions, especially with race-specific items.

Silver Crusade

I wonder what happened to horde sizes.

I remember playing/dming council of wyrms in 2e. To advance to the next age the dragons needed a 1:1 ratio of xp:gold/magical items.

So for the weakest an age 12/ great wyrm gold dragon could be they would have used to needed 820,000gp of loot to even become a great wyrm.

That's a little offtopic. :)

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