Shadow Conjuration and friends...

[seebs]

These spells appear to never have a casting time greater than one standard action, or require material components.

Is that intentional? I ask because there are a lot of conjuration [creation] or conjuration [summoning] spells where cost of materials is significant.

For instance: Instant Summons. Can you produce this with Shades, without using the material component? If so, does it just work, or does it have only an 80% chance of working, or what? Can you intentionally fail your will save against your own illusion?

What about Trap the Soul? Can I cast the trigger item variant of Trap the Soul without needing to provide the gem? For a lot of purposes, an 80% chance of that working without a material component is better than needing the material component.

I can't tell whether this is intentional or not. In some cases (sepia snake sigil), it seems a pretty ridiculous waste of a high level spell slot (and a lower one is too likely to fail, I think)... But in others, this borders on overpowered, even if it is a 9th level spell.

[deuxhero]

You are eating a higher level spell slot for the effect firstly. Higher level spells doing what a lower level one does without an expensive component is common.

[seebs]

True in general, but there's nothing I know of that lets you bypass 20k of material components. Scrying to greater scrying gives precedent for shortening cast times, though.

It's interesting to note:

1e/2e, the corresponding spells could ONLY do summoned monsters. 3e, they could do ANY conjuration. 3.5e and PF, it's limited to conjuration [creation] and conjuration [summoning].

[Lifat]

Good question. Will be following the thread for an answer.

[seebs]

Okay, here's a puzzle:

Does shadow conjuration of a spell count as that spell for purposes of crafting magic items?

[blahpers]

Nope. It isn't the requisite spell, just a poor copy of it.

[seebs]

blahpers wrote:

Nope. It isn't the requisite spell, just a poor copy of it.

Okay. What about using limited wish to substitute for a lower-level spell?

*thinks*

Can I make a wand of "shadow conjuration of summon monster III"? I assume it'd price as a 4th level wand and all that.

[blahpers]

Hmm, hadn't thought about limited wish. I suppose, though it sounds expensive. Other GMs might not allow it, especially for potions and such. RAW, it probably isn't allowed, but there's a reasonable case for it.

You could simply make a wand of shadow conjuration. No real need to limit it at the time of creation.